Metal...Has it gone down hill?




Posted by The Ripley

Hey, has the future of Heavy Metal gone down hill. I remember people starting to think it was a gay joke in the 80's. Remember the bands like Metallica, Slayer, and Anthrax. There were tones of Metal bands, but it was the same thing for all. Long, frizzy hair, the theme of death, genocide, satanism, and anarchy, and loud, fast playing. Now Metallica and Slayer were the only true bands of that age.

Then there was the hair metal like Rat, Poison, White Snake, and Cinderella. Some of these bands were very melodic, while others, well, just kinda sucked.

The best of the best was the Pre-metal, like AC/DC, Zeppelin, Sabbath, and my good man Alice Cooper. This was actually good, pure Rock'n Roll.

But today, we have the voulgar, krass, black metal bands like Cradle of Filth, and Cannibal Corpse. And there was Slipknot, which is apparently a bunch of normal, decent, nice guys, that have discovered a plan to make money, so they went to the musical side, and threw together a band just to scare your parents. I'm sure they laugh on the way to bank at their masks they put together.

So, what do you think, has the future of our Hard Rock, and Heavy Metal plummeted?




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

I think you need to rework your history before worrying about the present and/or future




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: But today, we have the voulgar, krass, black metal bands like Cradle of Filth, and Cannibal Corpse.


lol cannibal corpse is black metal.



Posted by Axis

The current Iron Maiden is doing way better than current Slayer or Metallica.




Posted by The Ripley

Yeah, Metallica has become slightly overated.




Posted by Axis

They've been overated since the Black Album, IMO.




Posted by MetalVox~55

You obviously have ignored a little european country called "Sweden".




Posted by Axis


Quoting Pit: Make love to me.

When and where? :-*

[quote=MetalVox~55]You obviously have ignored a little european country called "Sweden".
Who could ever forget them? :cool:




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Who could ever forget them?


Yeah, there's so much swedish **** out there its unbelievable. Too bad most of it is complete crap and impossible avoid.



Posted by cool gamer dad

A lot of well known metal bands have gone downhill, so naturally a lot people are going to think the genre as a whole has been going downhill.




Posted by Acheron


Quoting The Ripley: The best of the best was . . . AC/DC


And that's where I stopped reading.



Posted by mis0

Considering what his definition of "metal" is, I wonder if it really had much of a way to slide, as it were.




Posted by Shin-Ra


Quoting The Ripley: There were tones of Metal bands, but it was the same thing for all. Long, frizzy hair, the theme of death, genocide, satanism, and anarchy, and loud, fast playing. Now Metallica and Slayer were the only true bands of that age.

True bands of that age? K, Metallica loved singing of death and militant slaughters, while Slayer is known lyrics based on genocide, anarchy, and NS styled lyrics. Slayer sucks and Metallica should have stopped making music when Cliff died. At that, none of those lyrical themes were exactly original. Plus, the 80s had plenty of "true" metal bands.


Quoting The Ripley:
But today, we have the voulgar, krass, black metal bands like Cradle of Filth, and Cannibal Corpse.

You apparently don't know jack shit about black metal, so just stop. Black Metal started in the 80s with bands such as Bathory, Celtic Frost, Venom, Hellhammer, and Mercyful Fate so don't give me that "today" bullshit. But yeah, most black metal today SUCKS. At that, the highest point for black metal was somewhere between 94 and 96, so it's not exactly "new" or anything. It's been around for almost twenty years. Cradle of Filth is NOT black metal, just for the record.

My complaint about metal nowadays is the lack of originality. Black metal, for instance, was formed because death metal became so generic that it became a joke in itself. Years later, because of generic filth such as Dark Funeral, we have black metal put on the same level. It's pathetic.

As for "metal" bands such as Slipknot, drop D tuning doesn't make you metal. And anyone in their right mind who regards this as being anything similar to metal is retarded and should cut off their cocks and shove it in their mouths to prevent future idiocies from being uttered.

To end this, I honestly don't care if metal dies. Maybe the average fans wouldn't suck so much. This goes for Punk as well.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: At that, the highest point for black metal was somewhere between 94 and 96


Really? I'd have to disagree. Maybe around '91, '92-'95. There was some great stuff after 1995... but some of the best stuff came from the early nineties.

Otherwise, you sir, win.



Posted by Shin-Ra

I dunno, Burzum's Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, Gorgoroth's Pentagram, Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, and Darkthrone's Transilvanian Hunger came out in '94 and Ulver's Natten's Madrigal and Burzum's Filosofem in '96. I see that as the height, personally, but then again that's entirely subjective and based on what you think is the best material of the genre ('91 for early Darkthrone?) or at least the most influential.




Posted by Lord of Spam

It has to be good before it can get bad...


Quoting Shin-Ra: This goes for Punk as well.


Punk was born dead. The Sex Pistols were put together by a manager to appeal to the crowd that was forming around that type of music. They were what they were rebelling against, just in a different package. And it's continued to get trickeled down until what today it has no meaning. Sid Viscious was arrested for throwing a glass bottle which broke over a grils face and lodged a glass shard in her eye. And what do we have now? Fu.cking avril levigne "singing" songs written by men, distributed by male owned companies, targeted at little girls telling them that its cool to wear ****loads of eyeshadow and a tie, and that if they do then they will be XhardXxXcoreX.

The Pistols, prefab boy band though they may have been, still sang things that shocked people in their day ([url=http://www.plyrics.com/lyrics/sexpistols/bodies.html]and which are kinda odd even now[/url]), where as others tend to talk about things that are [url=http://www.allavril.com/LosingGrip.shtml]exceedingly trivial.[/url]



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: ('91 for early Darkthrone?)


Come on, Blaze is my favourite. Of course.

But yeah, you have the best from pretty much all the big names during those years. It slowed during '95, hardly anything in '96, and then a few exceptional albums in '97. From then on, it's a big bag of mixed ****. You have some really fantastic stuff like Nargaroth, Craft and Gorgoroth who continue to make great albums, but then you also have the large majority who are wallowing in past years or new bands that seem to have no idea what the hell the genre is about (either imitating past bands or coming up with stupid ideas).



Posted by Random

It seems as though all Genre's of Music have been going downhill steadily.

Oh and Metallica pwned til St Anger. Trust me.. That album sux0rz.




Posted by Klarth

REALLY? I'D NEVER HAVE GUESSED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR USEFUL CONTRIBUTION TO THIS THREAD. THAT WAS TRULY EYE-OPENING.

Far as I'm concerned, metal has not ****ing gone downhill. Firstly, the best of the best are still around - We still have Priest, Maiden, Thin Lizzy, Scorpions, Accept, etc, etc. And hell, even if their old stuff was better... I'm not even a huge fan, but I loved Angel of Retribution. Scorpions' newest album really isn't bad from what I've heard of it, either.

And hell, it's not just limited to the British and American metal that's all over the place. HI EUROPE. Bands like Therion, Machinae Supremacy and Evergrey come from Sweden, and man those guys are metal. We have Arcturus in Norway, who are ****ing GODS of BM and, er, "avant-garde metal". Then there's Italy, where we have a load of good prog-metal bands, and, er, Rhapsody.

And metal isn't limited to those few recognised bands on the streets - Blind Guardian, man. I'm surprised these guys aren't mainstream. Listen to the song "And Then There Was Silence". On an album on which they weren't really trying (the rest of A Night At The Opera wasn't great), they managed to come up with a fourteen minute orchestral epic, with some of the best guitars in the genre's history. Have you ever heard of Blind Guardian? Thought not.

And hell, some of the best metal is from the least-known bands on the face of the earth. Leaves' Eyes. German gothic metal. Hot singer. Great voice. **** catchy. Surprising that more people have heard of eVaNeScEnCe!!!1 than them. Then there's Agalloch (personal favourite). They're folk metal. Have you ever heard of folk metal? I didn't think you had, oops. Sounds stupid enough, but it's ****ing atmospheric and pretty chilling.

On the other hand, I plan on renaming every Cannibal Corpse song on Vamp's computer to see if he notices the difference.




Posted by Richaod


Quoting SomebodyRandom: Oh and Metallica pwned til St Anger. Trust me.. That album sux0rz.

Load and ReLoad weren't exactly classics either.

Really, Ripley, what seems to have changed is the definition of metal. It's far broader nowadays, and the bands you were paying attention to have simply changed. You hit the nail on the head with Slipknot though.

Nevermore's This Godless Endeavor is probably the straightest metal album of the year. Listen to the last track first and enjoy.

oh, and with regards to Judas Priest, I found British Steel to be an extremely bad, cliched and boring album; like AC/DC without any energy. The chorus of Breaking The Law is just bad, and the whole album is too frivolous and uninteresting for my tastes.

P.S. Klarth, you should really get some After Forever.



Posted by TheSecondComing


Quoting Lord of Spam:
Punk was born dead. The Sex Pistols were put together by a manager to appeal to the crowd that was forming around that type of music. They were what they were rebelling against, just in a different package. And it's continued to get trickeled down until what today it has no meaning. Sid Viscious was arrested for throwing a glass bottle which broke over a grils face and lodged a glass shard in her eye.


If you think the Sex Pistols were the 'birth' of punk, you're a twat.


Quoted post: And what do we have now? Fu.cking avril levigne "singing" songs written by men, distributed by male owned companies, targeted at little girls telling them that its cool to wear ****loads of eyeshadow and a tie, and that if they do then they will be XhardXxXcoreX.


If you think Avril Lavigne is 'punk', you're a twat.



Posted by Klarth


Quoting Richaod: BLAHBLAHBLAH

your post is null and void, and I hate after forever :)



Posted by The Ripley

Dont tell me how much I know about metal, I'm just talking based upon what I've heard, Metallica is my Favorite, and the only good band. Anthrax sucks, so does NEWER black metal, AKA gargling lyrics music.




Posted by Shin-Ra


Quoting The Ripley: Dont tell me how much I know about metal, I'm just talking based upon what I've heard, Metallica is my Favorite, and the only good band. Anthrax sucks, so does NEWER black metal, AKA gargling lyrics music.

It's been growled/ garlgled/ whatever you think BM Cannibal Corpse does since day one with Bathory's The Return.

Basically what I was saying is don't make a thread generalizing a genre you obviously don't know anything about. Do some research rather than going off what you've heard. It sounds blunt and 'not so very nice', but seriously, it'll do you good if you make a thread like this.



Posted by The Ripley

I am mored educated in Classic Rock, and 80's metal, not gay black metal, I could care less, because all it is, is an image. Nobody wants to take time studying it, because its not signifacnt in the Rock'N Roll Hall of Fame.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: We have Arcturus in Norway, who are ****ing GODS of BM


lol silly Klarth. Good BM, yeah, but Gods? Nay.


Quoted post: Anthrax sucks, so does NEWER black metal


I will agree that most new BM sucks, but you're saying ALL of it. Which is far, far from the truth. Just look at Nargaroth, Craft, Gorgoroth, 1349, Belenos, Bethlehem, Sigh, Destroyer 666, Manegarm, Sad Legend, Syny Severa, and many more. Please don't talk about something you clearly have no idea about.



Posted by Pit


Quoting Richaod:
Nevermore's This Godless Endeavor is probably the straightest metal album of the year. Listen to the last track first and enjoy.




Bruce Dickinson ~ Tyranny of Souls

[quote=The Ripley] not gay black metal,

No man, you're gay.



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting TheSecondComing: If you think the Sex Pistols were the 'birth' of punk, you're a twat.



If you think Avril Lavigne is 'punk', you're a twat.


If you're trying to call me a twat, then you fail miserably, as the intent of my post was that they weren't, and she isnt (respectively). I was trying to illustrate the decilne by comparing it to another genre.

ITS CALLED THE POINT, MOTHER FUCKER! DO YOU SEE IT?



Posted by Klarth

[quote=Vampiro]lol silly Klarth. Good BM, yeah, but Gods? Nay.
Alright, they're true kings of BM.

In Norway, at least.




Posted by Lord of Spam

[quote=Anonymous of 4chan]I think the metal culture is ****** culture, in the sense that the traditional metal people look like, behave like and think like a bunch of "white ******s". It's (at least often) an extremely primitive, unintelligent and pointless subculture, like all rock'n'roll subcultures are. I too listened to metal music, but I never behaved like a ****** just because of that, and I don't understand what the point with this metal subculture is. Smoking pot or getting drunk, sleeping around and giving each other venereal diseases, partying all the time, going to concerts to meet other vacuum-heads, and so forth. What's the point? Even bush-******s can be more sensible and constructive, and deeper than that.

The true attraction people have to this particular subculture is probably something else, like contempt for the modern world, fascination for death and the gothic, romanticism and even Pagan values, but it all becomes so very wrong when mixed with traditional rock'n'roll or heavy metal culture

Thought you might be interested.




Posted by MetalVox~55


Quoting Lord of Spam: stuff

What the ****?! :mad:



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Thought you might be interested.


What a horribly, generallized, stupid statement.


Quoted post: Alright, they're true kings of BM.

In Norway, at least.


Pff. They're really good BM, but not kings nor Gods.



Posted by The Ripley


Quoted post: Quote:
Originally Posted by The Ripley
not gay black metal,


No man, you're gay.




!Congradulations! YOUR A POSER!

:amy:
! HOORAY!



Posted by Klarth

http://metal-archives.com/release.php?id=46027




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: !Congradulations! YOUR A POSER!


! HOORAY!


Leave this forum right now


Quoted post: http://metal-archives.com/release.php?id=46027


Yeah, I have that. And I completely disagree. I also disagree with most of the other choices to. Immortal and Emperor about the only two I do agree with... and I'm not to sure about Emperor.



Posted by AT THE DRIVE-IN

I think it has gone down hill but then again all music has gone down hill to me at the moment. My idea is that all music is an evolution, just like bands influence each other and go on to start new genre's of music. Perhaps music at the moment is at a lul or perhaps its the best it's ever been and I just dont like any of it. Perhaps were on the verge of something very new and hopefully very good.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoting AT THE DRIVE-IN: I think it has gone down hill but then again all music has gone down hill to me at the moment. My idea is that all music is an evolution, just like bands influence each other and go on to start new genre's of music. Perhaps music at the moment is at a lul or perhaps its the best it's ever been and I just dont like any of it. Perhaps were on the verge of something very new and hopefully very good.


Your name is At the Drive-in. You opinion on music is null.



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting MetalVox~55: What the ****?! :mad:


Um, more specific please?



Posted by MetalVox~55

This thread is lame. Metal itself not losing it's edge, it's the people in society.




Posted by Richaod


Quoting TheSecondComing: To put it simply, At The Drive-In > metal.

EXTREMELY SIMPLY, objective judging >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subjective judging.

If anyone wants to dispute that, DO IT OBJECTIVELY.

I fail to see the appeal of At The Drive-In anyway. Cedric's vocals are far better with The Mars Volta (singing as opposed to single-tone yelling), and it's just not melodic enough for me to like. Plus, their guitar tone is weird.



Posted by KoH

[quote=Shin-Ra]You've only made five posts and I already think you're lamer than Richaod. Good job. Learn to either take a joke or at least make a decent, original, "omfg so edgy" comeback or get out.

Now talk about the topic, people, or I'll start deleting posts or split the thread in a way that'd make everyone look extremely stupid.

lmao

DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!




Posted by Shin-Ra


Quoting The Ripley: I am mored educated in Classic Rock, and 80's metal, not gay black metal, I could care less, because all it is, is an image. Nobody wants to take time studying it, because its not signifacnt in the Rock'N Roll Hall of Fame.

That's not the point I was trying to make. What you need to understand is, as far as metal goes, Black Metal is the embodiment of everything that is supposed to be METAL, not Rock and Roll. And since this thread is about METAL, my point rules you. At that, Rock'N Roll is insignicant to the history of Music, as is metal. So don't act as though Rock is some sacred, ancient form of art that you "schooled" yourself on. It's pointless and I laugh at you.

What part of "Black Metal is from the 80s" do you have a problem understanding?



Posted by Ex-Linkman


Quoting The Ripley: Then there was the hair metal like Rat, Poison, White Snake, and Cinderella. Some of these bands were very melodic, while others, well, just kinda sucked.


I certainly hope you didn't just say Whitesnake and Poision sucked. With that, bands like Whitesnake, Def Leppard, Kiss and all those other 80's hair bands weren't even metal, they were Rock 'n' Roll. The only 80's hair band I can think of that were metal is Judas Priest.

And no, metal isn't going downhill, at least not in it's entirety. Bands like Dream Theater, Ayreon. and Freedom Call never get popular, or even heard of. This is because they're masked behind these horrible noise bands the "media" thinks is metal, bands like Slipknot and As I Lay Dying. They're enough to turn anyone off to the entire genre.




Posted by Klarth

[quote=Linkman]The only 80's hair band I can think of that were metal is Judas Priest.
Motley Crue




Posted by mis0

What about Quiet Riot?




Posted by Klarth

Good call. Yeah, them too.




Posted by Ex-Linkman

Quiet Riot wasn't metal.




Posted by Shin_Akuma

In my opinion, metal has been going down hill on rocket skates.




Posted by Philsdad

Well, I think that "mainstream" metal has certainly gone downhill and crashed at the bottom. The bands that the media refer to as "metal" are nothing but a joke. But the underground metal scene is more alive and well than ever. So, I'd have to answer "no" to the original question.

I don't think metal was ever "dead" per se, but I think that it definitely took a little hiatus for awhile, mainly because there were so few worthwhile mainstream bands, and it was MUCH harder to hear about underground music, especially from other parts of the world at one time. Then a little miracle called P2P file sharing happened, and everything changed forever. At least for me, the Internet and P2P sharing opened me up to countless incredibly talented bands from all over the world, that I would have never heard otherwise. Bands such as Sad Legend, Falkenbach, Nokturnal Mortum, Einherjer, Die Apokalyptischen Reiter, Dark Age, Stormlord, etc. Bands like these and many others are constantly releasing great albums. So, if you really think there is no good metal today, then you are obviously just not looking hard enough. The technology is there, use it and find some good music!




Posted by Klarth


Quoting Linkman: Quiet Riot wasn't metal.

http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=1709



Posted by segashadow128gcn

or we could all just forget about the crappy old metal.... and thank the fact that we have metalcore.... zao.. as i lay dying... darkesthour.... just to name a few.. but come on there what "metal" wants to be




Posted by Pit


Quoting segashadow128gcn: or we could all just forget about the crappy old metal



You mean the one that actually took skill to play and surprisingly sounds good compared to all these "-core" and nu-metal crap?



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: or we could all just forget about the crappy old metal.... and thank the fact that we have metalcore.... zao.. as i lay dying... darkesthour.... just to name a few.. but come on there what "metal" wants to be


lewl. The only band in that list that has an ounce of skill is Darkest Hour... and that's only the guitarists.



Posted by Klarth

Apparently Devin Townsend produces them. Cool.

...but he's canadian, so even so...




Posted by Gollum


Quoting Klarth: Apparently Devin Townsend produces them. Cool.

...but he's canadian, so even so...


That may be so, but he has a skullet. Come on.



Posted by Shin-Ra


Quoting segashadow128gcn: or we could all just forget about the crappy old metal.... and thank the fact that we have metalcore.... zao.. as i lay dying... darkesthour.... just to name a few.. but come on there what "metal" wants to be

Metalcore is, to me, utterly retarded because it's merely glorified nu-metal. It's entirely too easy to play, it's repetitive, and just... annoying. I normally wouldn't make a generalization like this, but I'm playing in a band right now whose music was written by their former guitarist, who played strictly metalcore. So obviously, I have experience on this and loads of built up frustration towards the genre.

Plus, uh, I'm fairly sure no band in their right mind would want to be anything like Zao or As I Lay Dying. To narrow it down, metal has been pretty anti "core" for quite some time anyway, so you might want to change that argument.



Posted by gOdOfWaR

the ripley get your facts strait metal has never gone "downhill" in the 80's and early 90's it was popular .mid 90' then punk came along.there are so many genres of metal these days.NU-metal i think is pointless stick with prog metal its not evan metal in my book.there are so many genres that people over look and ones that people have created just to be put in a genre apart from the rest. i personly like thrash metal because i can understand the lyrics.i like speed because its fast. i like heavy because its has good riffs.now how long are we going to argue on this board?




Posted by auzzman5151

well avenged sevenfold is taking metal back up and dying out that ****ty genre of nu-metal or metal core.




Posted by Klarth

ha ha ha

Little do you know.




Posted by MetalVox~55


Quoting auzzman5151: well avenged sevenfold is taking metal back up and dying out that ****ty genre of nu-metal or metal core.

but...aren't they just adding to the problem? :confused:



Posted by Velvet Nightmare


Quoting auzzman5151: well avenged sevenfold is taking metal back up and dying out that ****ty genre of nu-metal or metal core.


What the fuck are you talking about? They're one of the worst bands of the day and are completely contibuting to the problem.

Get out. Now.

Oh, and:

Quoting gOdOfWaR: mid 90' then punk came along


Thanks for the good laugh. Try to get your facts strait, the scene has been along since before you were born.



Posted by Shin-Ra

^ To add to that, 'extreme' metal was directly influenced by punk in the late 70s/early 80s. This includes Thrash, Death, Black (especially), and other genres regarded as so-called "real" metal. Get punk, make the guitar-work more technical, keep the speed, and add Black Sabbath lyrics.




Posted by Acheron

Oh, Avenged Sevenfold. That's a good one, hah.

"I am gonna kill you, won't leave until you die! Murder, blood, and vengeance, I close my brother's eyes tonight!"

That's some deep writing there ayup.




Posted by gOdOfWaR

avenged sevenfold said they were influenced by metal.now there trying to make there music sound met-al.they are not metal.i dont mind them there better than slapnuts




Posted by Megatron

Metal went down hill awhile ago. Instead of new sounds and lyrical subjects, you get stereo-typical death metal, power metal and black metal. Or you get some band that tries to do something new by watering down a genre like death metal (all of the worthless 'melodic' death metal bands). Then you get the dorks who want to stay in 1987 and 'keep it true' by writing songs that are carbon copies of Manowar songs from the 80's because the carbon copy songs Manowar does now just isn't enough.

But it's not completely the bands fault. The fans who just want to hear "Screaming For Vengeance II", or the 2nd coming of "Master of Puppets" are also the blame for the down hill trend in metal.




Posted by Shin-Ra

I don't agree that metal is going downhill, for the simple fact that there are some original metal bands out there today. As for the other 90% of the current, I have to agree with Megatron's post. Very nicely put.

It's strange to me, that nowadays the more entertaining and innovative metal bands out there are actually stepping further and further away from the genre; be it ambient, folk, neofolk, or something completely different than what anyone has heard.




Posted by Richaod


Quoting Shin-Ra: It's strange to me, that nowadays the more entertaining and innovative metal bands out there are actually stepping further and further away from the genre; be it ambient, folk, neofolk, or something completely different than what anyone has heard.

Too true. One of the reasons why metal seems to have gone downhill is simply because the bands that're producing what was considered "metal" ten or twenty years ago aren't (generally) putting out new, interesting material. It's because metal in general has broadened, combining itself with other genres (in folk cases, well, and with nu-metal/metalcore... not so well) and "pure" or true metal has just stagnated.

The funny thing is, [url=http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/fb.aspx?m=1044540]Mike Portnoy quite likes Avenged Sevenfold[/url].



Posted by Hammered On

Music (including metal) keeps getting better than ever. The problem is that a lot of really good music is largely overlooked. Hopefully all mainstream music will just roll over and die someday. <3




Posted by The Punisher


Quoted post: black metal bands like Cradle of Filth, and Cannibal Corpse.


You jack a[COLOR="White"]s[/COLOR]s, cradle are not black metal. Also, Cannibal Corpse is death metal. Oh, and how does this have anything to do with metal going down hill? Why becuase you dont see some fruit loop running around in his moms basement wearing leather pants with white clown paint all over his face dancing around to guns' and roses?



Posted by father o'blivion

there was a hill for it to go down?




Posted by gOdOfWaR

metal is metal its not going be like disco or something its lasted a long time. everyone has diffrent tastes