Iwata apologises for E3




Posted by Speedfreak


Quoted post: "We are sorry about [the E3] media briefings, specifically for those who were expecting to see Nintendo show something about Super Mario or Legend of Zelda," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told Forbes.

"If there is any perception that Nintendo is ignoring the core gamers, it's a misunderstanding and we really want to get rid of that misunderstanding by any means," he continued. "The so-called big titles need a long, long development period...we really didn't think this year's E3 media briefing was the time to do so."


http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53803

The fact that they didn't spin it like a bunch of faggots earns them a fair chunk of my respect back. It also suggests that they aren't that worried about what they have, usually when a company is desperate they'll act something like Sony's patented PANIC MODE. Combined with what Miyamoto said about E3 it sounds like they're waiting for another time to announce what are now more niche titles compared to successes like Wii Sports.



Posted by #061402

Probably means that next year, Sony and Microsoft are going to look like Nintendo did this year.




Posted by Alastor

I saw the title and thought, "Apologize to me with games, not words.", but as Speedy said, the fact that he didn't spin it at all does earn a little respect back from me.

Still, I hope they announce those titles before E3 '09, if there even is an E3 next year...




Posted by Prince Shondronai

Tokyo Game Show is Nintendo's next window of opportunity for dispensing The Win.




Posted by Speedfreak

You know, Space World did actually come back, though no one seemed to notice.




Posted by maian

When is the next gaming convention/place to unveil new games? I don't care which one it is. :cookie:

Anyway, that makes me slightly happier, although I have a feeling Nintendo would just do it again next year. They've already said themselves they decided E3 would be the place they make all their casual announcements.




Posted by Prince Shondronai

They seem to have reevaluated that belief a bit. We'll see, next year. In the meantime, the Tokyo Game Show is October 9th. If Spaceworld is back, like Speedfreak says, though, Nintendo might not show at the TGS.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

"Yeah, we're ignoring you for a more profitable market but me saying we're not makes up for it right?!"




Posted by WillisGreeny

Apologizing to the core gamers shows how they aren't ignoring us, so much as just putting core gamers on the back burners. For me, the apology has bought them some time, though they better get on the ball soon.




Posted by Zeta

It's funny because most casual gamers probably have never heard of E3.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Apologizing to the core gamers shows how they aren't ignoring us, so much as just putting core gamers on the back burners. For me, the apology has bought them some time, though they better get on the ball soon.


ignoring in terms of games. They've addressed the hardcore market numerous times, saying relatively the same thing.


Quoted post: It's funny because most casual gamers probably have never heard of E3.


E3 gets a lot of news coverage.



Posted by WillisGreeny

The only gaming conference most casual gamers would be aware of would be the E3 conference, so it makes sense.




Posted by Shade

You mean there are other conferences!?




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Zeta;868356]It's funny because most casual gamers probably have never heard of E3.

I suppose that's kind of the point. A lot of press are present at E3, not just the games press. If Nintendo wanted to get the word out about their casual titles then that would be the best place to do it. If they wanted to do the same all they'd have to do is email IGN and we'd all know about it. As far as they're concerned talking about hardcore-only games at E3 is a waste of time, hence the only "hardcore" titles having a lot of casual appeal too: Animal Crossing, Shaun White Snowboarding and Grand theft Auto DS (yeah, I went there).




Posted by Shade

...Shaun White Snowboarding?

Hardcore?

Can't be.




Posted by Speedfreak

Hence the quote marks, dummkopf.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

No one wants to hear about some annoying ***** breaking her arm. They could've easily skipped that **** and thrown in a few mentions for hardcore titles. People just go there for games, not to hear personal stories.




Posted by Speedfreak

Quit being so butthurt, it's not like Nintendo alone have the manpower to fill a release schedule with hardcore games anyway. Why is confirmation of games we know will eventually come so important?




Posted by Shade

Confirmation actually gives people something to look forward to, rather than just speculation.




Posted by Speedfreak

For the next 6-9 months that is actually all we're getting from Nintendo.




Posted by WillisGreeny

There will be a new Mario, Metroid, and Zelda. All confirmed.

Proof? It's Nintendo.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Two zeldas are already confirmed. And so is a mario iir




Posted by Speedfreak

...wait what, two?




Posted by WillisGreeny

I don't need Nintendo to confirm plans for making another Mario game. I already know. Same with Zelda.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: ...wait what, two?


idk anymore. maybe I read wrong. too lazy to fact check.



Posted by WillisGreeny

One for the Wii, and one for the DS that can connect to the Wii version. Calling it.




Posted by Sr. Arrogant Bastard

don't forget Metroid, its a shame Zelda and Metroid are own by Nintendo, id like to play the new games on other systems.




Posted by Speedfreak

Eh, just play them on the system they come on.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Bioshock/Mass Effect for Metroid
Okami/Shadow of the Colossus for Zelda.

or soemthing like that

NOW YOU CAN PLAY NINTENDO GAMES ON NON-NINTENDO SYSTEMS




Posted by Prince Shondronai

But if you're paying over $100 more for another system to play those "Nintendo" games (which also cost $10 more a piece on the other systems), aren't you, in fact, a big frickin' retard with no common sense? I submit that you are. It's like buying a psp and then doing nothing but emulate GBA games on it.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

360 will be, like, 199 bucks in less than a month and a PS2 is under a hundred.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro V. Empire;872444]Bioshock/Mass Effect for Metroid
Okami/Shadow of the Colossus for Zelda.

or soemthing like that

NOW YOU CAN PLAY NINTENDO GAMES ON NON-NINTENDO SYSTEMS

Shadow of the Collossus is nothing like Zelda, I'm shocked that you're dumb enough to make such a comparison. BioShock has only the most tenuous of links to Metroid, for the most part the two are also completely different. Okami is never ever getting a sequel.

Really, the only places to get action-adventure games now are on Nintendo systems, it's the only realistic market for them.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

I got it, mainly because it was used in Hotel Dusk too.




Posted by Speedfreak

I don't see the point of a puzzle that only 1% of players will get unless they've done the exact same thing before. It screams of contrived use of the two screens.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Shadow of the Collossus is nothing like Zelda, I'm shocked that you're dumb enough to make such a comparison. BioShock has only the most tenuous of links to Metroid, for the most part the two are also completely different. Okami is never ever getting a sequel.


Horse ridan plus big bosses, and that combined with Okami make it fairly similar. And Bioshock cause of the set pieces and atmosphere, combined with the spacey alien stuff of Mass Effect make it somewhat similar. Though I was just generalising and wasn't meant as anything serious anyways. Just the four games that came to mind first.



Posted by Speedfreak

Theme =/= play.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Whoa, thanks, dude. Didn't know those two were completely different. Just the two closest examples I could think of in terms of feeling and look.




Posted by Speedfreak

My point is, depite them being the closest examples, they're still not very close at all.

Don't see why you'd want these Nintendo games so very badly yet not want to buy the system they were designed for. Nintendo are the world's 2nd biggest games publisher, they make other games too.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: My point is, depite them being the closest examples, they're still not very close at all.


No kidding. But there aren't a whole lot of games exactly like Prime.



Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

Bioshock plays a lot like Prime, both in gameplay and atmosphere. Take away the lock-on, and MP is pretty much Bioshock in the future. Seriously. I could elaborate on a ton of reasons.




Posted by Speedfreak

I think you'd be listing reasons why both games aren't like other FPSs, rather than why both games are the same.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Atmosphere-wise they're pretty alike imo. Not to mention the, again, settings and pieces. Steam-punk, retro-futuristic look with grand/elegant designs. More or less completely cut off from the rest of the world with brief instances of character interaction. Rebuilding the story of a destroyed world, etc etc. Pretty similar.




Posted by WillisGreeny

Not exactly sure what's beeing discussed here, but anywho!

You're in a new environment where you have to shoot things to survive.
You gain new ways to shoot things.
You gain new pathways with new ways to shoot.
You meet new enemies that move differently than other enemies, attacking differently, exc.
You have a goal to get somewhere, or get something, or get somewhere with something.
You arrive on a ship.

I mean, there are plenty of ways to see how Bio and Metroid are the same, but one major difference between the two involves the theme's suited age group. Bio = mature Metroid = pre teen and above. There are several points that can be brought up, but I'll just explain one: Samus's space suit. Space suits are for a child's appeal, more specifically, transforming. Think Power Rangers, and you know what I mean. Little kids love that crap, and nowa days there's Ben 10, witch switches the "suit" into other aliens. Bioshock just sticks with the guns and gore. Not saying space suits wouldn't work for adults, I'm just saying it plays a part in the game's context for the targeted audience. If the main character in bioshock dressed up in a suite, was killing aliens instead of infected human beings, and the gore was just yellow slime resembeling bug guts, with the actual guns being make-believe plasma blasters, you'd have a Nintendo game.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Samus's space suit.


Quoted post: If the main character in bioshock dressed up in a suite,


Main guy dresses up in a space-like suit.



Posted by Speedfreak

Thematic similarities I can see, after all I made the comparison to Bioshock last year when I said Nintendo should market Metroid as a BioShock killer. But I don't think theme really makes the game, many games these days have extremely similar basic themes anyway. So I'm ignoring them for the moment along with Koala's misconception about the target market.

The core mechanics bear very little similarity to eachother other than superficially, however:

1. Sure, in both games you collect upgrades. But in BioShock you pick and choose, you cannot have it all, the upgrades span out from you like branches on a tree. You are encouraged to experiment (and in my opinion the environment fails to validate or invalidate your choices). In Metroid your upgrades are all indisputably upgrades; you can use whatever you collect all at the same time. They exist to encourage you to explore, in BioShock choosing them is a mechanic in of itself.

2. Both games involve exploration and puzzle solving to some extent. But in BioShock you are pushed around from area to area after being told directly what to do and never look back. In Metroid where you go is entirely up to you, and going back to previously visited areas yeilds upgrades. Making mental post-it notes is a core mechanic in Metroid, but does not exist in any form in BioShock.

3. Both feature first person combat. But BioShock plays more like a traditional FPS combined with a survival horror. You're rewarded for knowledge of your environment and for marksmanship. Boss characters require a plan, luring them into the sight of hacked turrets and mind controlled enemies and arming yourself with as much heavy weaponry as possible. Regular enemies are actually a challenge and are simply the bosses on a smaller, faster scale. Fighting in Metroid is very Megaman-like; regular enemies are merely decoration and are never likely to kill you. Succeeding against bosses require you to learn their dance, avoid all their attacks and basically accumulate less damage than they do. It's a war of attrition. The only preperation you need is making sure you're topped up, which isn't remotely difficult and isn't supposed to be. The rest is practice.




Posted by WillisGreeny

Target market for Metroid is Americans 12 and up (which includes adults).

Bioshock is for 17 and up.

Explain the misconception, since it's as bright as day whom Metroid targeted.




Posted by Speedfreak

BioShock is targeted at 18+ year olds with the mental age of 12 who feel the need for a psuedo-artistic plot and relatively minor amounts of gore and drug references. The "mature content" and foot-long feature list is to make it feel good about it's thoroughly mediocre gameplay. Let's face it, the game is hardly Manhunt 2 anyway, the Big Daddies and bizarre looking splicers are about as cartoony as you can get, they almost look cute for Christ's sake.

Metroid isn't targeted at anyone in particular, which is why it's perfectly suitable for a 6 year old and a 25 year old alike. It doesn't whore itself out to the "mature" audience because it knows that alien-blasting and planet-exploring is inherently f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cking awesome no matter how old you are. It lets the gameplay speak for itself. Well, that is until they crammed it full of Halo references.

For the short answer, this is exactly why idiots will think a game about fighting evil empires, genetically-enhanced, concrete-haired soldiers and AERIS DIES is more mature than a game about a young boy escaping from slavery to find his mother and avenge his father purely because of how bright the colours are and how little the game has you organising pointless shit to disguise it's shallow gameplay.




Posted by WillisGreeny

Idiots? Me?

Is he talking to me?

For a short answer, you certainly ramble on for a quite a long time about something completely irrelavent to a point that counters my statements of "targeted audience". First off, did I say 12? Make it 8! or 6! or w/e makes you feel better. It targets "everyone", there. Considering I chose a higher number than you did for Metroid's targeted audience means I actually gave more credit to Metroid having depth, regardless of its colors and FF7 events...which I didn't know was in Metroid. The target audience is everyone, therefore, the theme helps it's lower age spectrum, considereing children are more impressionable to "space" themes.

Themes matter.

Another thing, It's irrelavent whether or not the author accomplishes his goal for his target audience. What's mature doesn't directly indicate gore or violence, but for Bioshock, it does. Bioshock's tone was mature because of the violence and blood, along with other elements similar to a horror movie. Dim lighting, creepy music, eerie noises, guns, guts being blasted all over hell... Idk what you consider "mature", but I call it mature in the sense that 10 yr olds would be freaked out watching it if they saw it, shivering for a week.

Big daddies cute? Not up close they aren't.

You've failed to point out my misconception of Metroid's targeted audience, SO DON'T CALL ME OUT. People will stop thinking I'm a smart guy, which really matters.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I think we all know M for Mature doesn't actually mean M for mature. But BioShock went quite a bit beyond durhur big guns and lots of blood, which is what you typically get out of a mature title. I mean, sure it had both, but what exactly do you expect if you're going to create weapons and shoot people?




Posted by maian


Quoting Prince Shondronai: It's like buying a psp and then doing nothing but emulate GBA games on it.


I disagree completely, since I've done that and it's been completely beneficial. Should I buy $300 worth or Super Nintendo and GBA games seperately, or buy one handheld system that can play them all for free? :cookie:



Posted by Speedfreak

I believe Prince was referring to the typical good person that isn't necessarily out to grab all he or she can for as little money as possible because they feel that, because they exist, they deserve it.

Iron Koala: Okay, I see your point now. Forgive me, but from your first post on the matter I got the impression that you were sort of a Giant Douche. I understand your logic, it's pretty much equal to mine; your conclusion just fails in my view because of a few details you've skipped over. I'll get to that in a minute, I figure you'll want to know first why I thought you came off as a Giant Douche.

Basically, this comment in your first post didn't so much stick out like a sore thumb so much as a gangrenous wound, reeking of ignorance:

[quote][COLOR=#99cccc]one major difference between the two involves the theme's suited age group. Bio = mature Metroid = pre teen and above.[/COLOR]What I took from that wasn't that BioShock is suitable only for mature audiences and that Metroid is suitable for preteens and up because that's not what it actually says. You're actually saying that only certain age groups suit the games, not the other way around. You then go on to say that Bioshock is objectively mature ("=") and that Metroid's sits around the preteen level and can merely be enjoyed by someone older than that. I'll let it slide, since I could just be reading it funny.

Then there's this:

[quote][COLOR=#99cccc]Space suits are for a child's appeal[/COLOR]I mean What The F[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]ck. Are you seriously suggesting space suits are inherently childish whilst submarines and underwater citiesand shooting electricy and ice and fire and bees from your hands is something strictly for mature audiences?

[quote][COLOR=#99cccc] If the main character in bioshock dressed up in a suite, was killing aliens instead of infected human beings, and the gore was just yellow slime resembeling bug guts, with the actual guns being make-believe plasma blasters, you'd have a Nintendo game.[/COLOR]No motherf[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cker, you'd have Starship Troopers or Alien.

The only reasoning I can come up with for you thinking that space suits are for kids is that, when we were kids, lots of shit for young and old was space themed. And space being space, space suits were thick on the ground. Why not unfairly label robots and time travel too, since those kind of things were f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cking awesome when we were ten?

But I'll get back to the topic at hand since I believe we've reached some kind of understanding.

[quote][COLOR=#99cccc]Dim lighting, creepy music, eerie noises, guns, guts being blasted all over hell... Idk what you consider "mature", but I call it mature in the sense that 10 yr olds would be freaked out watching it if they saw it, shivering for a week.[/COLOR]What part of that isn't present in Metroid Prime? Hell, what part of that isn't a staple of the franchise? Did you find the Metroid breeding area in the sky city? Did you wander around the wrecked frigate in the first game or the ransacked cruiser in the third, perhaps finding the room where a sentient being was obviously forcibly ripped from it's container? Metroid is a champion of atmosphere, there should be no doubt whatsoever that the developers of BioShock learnt a lot from Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. That you could be so wrong about this point in particular boggles the mind.




Posted by WillisGreeny

[quote=Speedfreak;874996]

No motherf[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cker, you'd have Starship Troopers or Alien.

The only reasoning I can come up with for you thinking that space suits are for kids is that, when we were kids, lots of s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it for young and old was space themed. And space being space, space suits were thick on the ground. Why not unfairly label robots and time travel too, since those kind of things were f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cking awesome when we were ten?


More like the fact Power Rangers, Beetles, and a million other shows targeting 6 to 10 year olds put a large emphasis on "suits" is why I said that. Do you get Fox Kids in England? It's a huge deal, not related to time travel or robots, just suits alone, having little to do with space.

[quote]
What part of that isn't present in Metroid Prime? Hell, what part of that isn't a staple of the franchise? Did you find the Metroid breeding area in the sky city? Did you wander around the wrecked frigate in the first game or the ransacked cruiser in the third, perhaps finding the room where a sentient being was obviously forcibly ripped from it's container? Metroid is a champion of atmosphere, there should be no doubt whatsoever that the developers of BioShock learnt a lot from Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. That you could be so wrong about this point in particular boggles the mind.

How about I tackel this from a different angle. Shooting human beings with blood all over them is different than shooting a bug. Shooting a human being make human like sounds with a realistic gun is different than shooting a bug that makes alien sounds with a makebelieve zapper with bright colors. It takes a more mature person to handle (supposedly) this type of violence that resembels realism than what goes on in Metroid. Metroid did have corpses, but none of the bodies were outside of suits, making it easier to handle than a body completely exposed. Bioshock is graphically mature, enough said. Metroid isn't as graphically mature because shooting humans who aren't in suits is much more graphic than shooting ghost humanoids.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Iron Koala;875011]More like the fact Power Rangers, Beetles, and a million other shows targeting 6 to 10 year olds put a large emphasis on "suits" is why I said that. Do you get Fox Kids in England? It's a huge deal, not related to time travel or robots, just suits alone, having little to do with space.

The Dark Knight, supposedly the Greatest Movie Ever Made (strictly for mature audiences only), is a movie about a detective who runs around in a fucking bat suit. This single gleaming example knocks your line of arguement into the stone age, cease immediately.

[quote=Iron Koala;875011] How about I tackel this from a different angle. Shooting human beings with blood all over them is different than shooting a bug. Shooting a human being make human like sounds with a realistic gun is different than shooting a bug that makes alien sounds with a makebelieve zapper with bright colors. It takes a more mature person to handle (supposedly) this type of violence that resembels realism than what goes on in Metroid. Metroid did have corpses, but none of the bodies were outside of suits, making it easier to handle than a body completely exposed. Bioshock is graphically mature, enough said. Metroid isn't as graphically mature because shooting humans who aren't in suits is much more graphic than shooting ghost humanoids.

Your use of the word mature is, frankly, disturbing. As if the activity of shooting people and looking at human gore is more mature than not doing it. Let's be clear here, video games are not things you "handle". They are a form of entertainment you actively seek out and enjoy of your own free will. Anyone who considers themselves a more mature person for seeking out games with that kind of content and avoiding a game without it is, categorically, a sick fuck.




Posted by WillisGreeny

[quote=Speedfreak;875013]The Dark Knight, supposedly the Greatest Movie Ever Made (strictly for mature audiences only), is a movie about a detective who runs around in a f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cking bat suit. This single gleaming example knocks your line of arguement into the stone age, cease immediately.


Funny you should mention batman, considering the cartoon was on right after Power Rangers. :rolleyes: And I'm sure all the adults aren't saying "I like Batman because Heath Ledger's performance, and because of the cool action scenes", instead it's "I love that suit."


Adults like different things than kids...right? I never once said adults couldn't enjoy a suited hero, and to concieve that from what I'm saying shows a dangerously low level of comprehension. Did I say adults can't enjoy suited heros? no. Did I say suits are only for children? no. I said smaller kids are more impressionable to liking a "cool suited" hero than adults. To argue with me about this relationship not being possible when FoxKids has made countless rips of Kid shows dedicated to that demographic all involving suits is just stupid, and I'm sorry you've never made the connection.

Btw, How ironic that the one thing you cite in proving me wrong is what completely proves my entire outlook about suits and children. You mention the most recent reinvention of batman as though for the last 50 years Batman has been targeting mature audiences. I can list 1000s of cartoons and comics of the Batman series all targeting children, but then again, I never said adults couldn't enjoy batman comics...that's your own conclusion to what I'm saying. The wrong one.

[quote]
Your use of the word mature is, frankly, disturbing. As if the activity of shooting people and looking at human gore is more mature than not doing it. Let's be clear here, video games are not things you "handle". They are a form of entertainment you actively seek out and enjoy of your own free will. Anyone who considers themselves a more mature person for seeking out games with that kind of content and avoiding a game without it is, categorically, a sick f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]ck.

My definition of a mature video game has yet to even be typed on this forum, let alone for you to yack on about how wrong it is to your oh-so-full-of-it additude. My usage of the word is for the sake of what people are familiar with by the ESRB. You find there ratings disturbing? Heck, I do too, but take it up with them. ****, your acting like I'm part of the ESRB, and that I rank Bioshock higher than Metroid.

ESRB: Mature = violence. Simple.




Posted by Klarth

[quote]Idiots? Me?

Is he talking to me?
not paying attention to your little internet skirmish at all, but for god's sake, boy, this is not how you engage someone in an argument. you are not making yourself look clever. grow up.




Posted by Fate

I didn't read every post in this argument, but I did manage to catch Speedfreak saying that BioShock wasn't that good.

What?!




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

Bioshock: the best game you'll ever play once then put on your shelf and forget about




Posted by Prince Shondronai

C'mon. You gotta play it at least twice. Once as a savior of little girls, and once as a harvester of their tasty brains.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=The X;875211]Bioshock: the best game you'll ever play once then put on your shelf and forget about

Translation: The most overhyped game ever that you'll play, not like that much and prove it by never playing it again, all the while assuring yourself it was great.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

There weren't enough Werther's Originals or long naps in an armchair for Speedfreak to call this game a true classic.




Posted by Klarth


Quoting Fate: I didn't read every post in this argument, but I did manage to catch Speedfreak saying that BioShock wasn't that good.

What?!



It isn't. It's a barely decent game that hides its generic shooter roots with amazing environments and atmosphere. End of.



Posted by Fate

Why, yes, of course. We all play games like you do.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Iron Koala;875097]Funny you should mention batman, considering the cartoon was on right after Power Rangers. :rolleyes: And I'm sure all the adults aren't saying "I like Batman because Heath Ledger's performance, and because of the cool action scenes", instead it's "I love that suit."

That's weird, it's like you hit the nail on the head so hard it actually came out the other side. Apply that exact same (sarcastic) logic to Metroid:

"And I'm sure all the adults aren't saying 'I like Metroid because of the moody atmosphere, beautiful environments and cerebral gameplay, and because of the fun bosses', instead it's 'I love that suit.'"

[quote=Iron Koala;875097] Adults like different things than kids...right? I never once said adults couldn't enjoy a suited hero, and to concieve that from what I'm saying shows a dangerously low level of comprehension. Did I say adults can't enjoy suited heros? no. Did I say suits are only for children? no. I said smaller kids are more impressionable to liking a "cool suited" hero than adults. To argue with me about this relationship not being possible when FoxKids has made countless rips of Kid shows dedicated to that demographic all involving suits is just stupid, and I'm sorry you've never made the connection.

Sorry to break it to you, but your "connection" is completely arbitrary. Consider this angle. Martial arts have been popular in children's entertainment for generations, with cartoons as old as Hong Kong Phooey, the more recent Power Rangers and the relatively new Samurai Jack. Does this make games like Street Fighter II and Virtua Fighter less mature because of it, especially since they also have strong appeal to people of all ages? Is Mortal Kombat more mature than both of these games for it's gorier content despite being a fucking retarded button masher that only appeals to people with the mental age of 12? Honestly, tell me, because I don't get it.

[quote=Iron Koala;875097]My definition of a mature video game has yet to even be typed on this forum, let alone for you to yack on about how wrong it is to your oh-so-full-of-it additude. My usage of the word is for the sake of what people are familiar with by the ESRB. You find there ratings disturbing? Heck, I do too, but take it up with them. ****, your acting like I'm part of the ESRB, and that I rank Bioshock higher than Metroid.

ESRB: Mature = violence. Simple.

This is a mindf[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]ck. On the one hand I know you know there's a difference between ESRB ratings requiring different levels of maturity from the players and how mature a game actually is, but on the other I see you merging the two concepts as if they're one and the same. Just to be clear even if I've said it before, Metroid for sure is targeted at a wider audience and therefore a lower maturity threshold than BioShock. What's raising my eyebrow is how you conclude that Metroid is less mature than BioShock because of it's choice of not including gore and some extremely tenuous link between one element of the series and a growing trend on one particular children's television network. Either that or you're using the word mature wrong.




Posted by WillisGreeny

[quote=netman;875197]not paying attention to your little internet skirmish at all, but for go[COLOR=white]d[/COLOR]'s sake, boy, this is not how you engage someone in an argument. you are not making yourself look clever. grow up.

Actually, there's no right way to argue on the internet because just to initiate the act nullifys any attempt to gain respect by others, therefore, knowing that I understand that princible, I'm not doing it to please anyone. I'm in it for the Speedfreak endurance test, but thanks for the critique anyway.


@SpeedFreak: Or, there's multiple meanings of the word mature, and you're going off of mature meaning sophisticated, while I'm using it for meaning not for younger people who can't handle gore...




Posted by Speedfreak

There are multiple meanings, yes. But the new definition that only gamers use is pretty retarded considering the usual definition of the word, especially when they (usually) consider their meaning to be the same as the rest of the world's meaning anyway.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: The Dark Knight, supposedly the Greatest Movie Ever Made (strictly for mature audiences only), is a movie about a detective who runs around in a ****ing bat suit. This single gleaming example knocks your line of arguement into the stone age, cease immediately.



dark knight is a little too frightening for children, buddy.



Posted by Speedfreak

...are you serious?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

have you seen a six year-old in a dark knight theater?




Posted by Speedfreak

...have you tried rereading what you quoted?

You can delete these last 4 posts as a freebie, I won't tell. Really.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Nah, only part I read. I don't really care if I was way off mark.




Posted by Klarth


Quoting Fate: Why, yes, of course. We all play games like you do.


er.

sorry, but strip away everything that gave Bioshock recognition - plot, environment, characters, scripting, graphics, etc etc - and you have an FPS experience that you've seen a thousand times before. Watching every remarkable part of the game on Youtube will save you the trouble of getting around the artificially injected game logic hurdles the game chucks at you ("can't shoot, you don't have the right kind of junk, kill people until you have enough junk").

if you "don't play games like I do", then you're missing the point. go play a few hours of Halo while listening to Sinatra. Same ****.



Posted by Klarth

and speedy, I hate to say it, but vamp is right. new batman is violent and angry




Posted by Speedfreak

..yeah, that was exactly my point. That it's for adults despite there being a suit in it, just like how Metroid isn't dragged down by having a suit either.

I was gonna delete the pointless, irrelevent arguement between Vamp and I, but you had to go and validate it. Way to go, slugger.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

stop deleting ****




Posted by Fate


Quoting netman: er.

sorry, but strip away everything that gave Bioshock recognition - plot, environment, characters, scripting, graphics, etc etc - and you have an FPS experience that you've seen a thousand times before. Watching every remarkable part of the game on Youtube will save you the trouble of getting around the artificially injected game logic hurdles the game chucks at you ("can't shoot, you don't have the right kind of junk, kill people until you have enough junk").

if you "don't play games like I do", then you're missing the point. go play a few hours of Halo while listening to Sinatra. Same ****.


I don't play games in pieces, but as a sum of its parts. It's about how the game is presented to me as a whole. It would be incredibly stupid to take away any part of the game that is shown. It's like saying, "If that chick didn't have such a dog face, she'd be pretty cute."

And FYI, I can't play ANY console game without the sound of the game. It's counter-intuitive and just doesn't make sense to how the game is presented to me.




Posted by Speedfreak

I don't really agree with netman saying it's like Halo under the sea. It really plays nothing like Halo, it's more like first-person Resident Evil survival sprinkled with Metroid wandering around. The combat itself really doesn't feel great, though, at least Halo has meaty mechanics. The RPG-like customisation doesn't really bring about whole new approaches to the game, it just defines whether you run into a room with a wrench, a gun or an icy fist. The plot is also retarded, I mean, well done, you hypnotised me into doing the only possible thing I could have done anyway.

It's an average (fairly competent) game and wrapped around a stupid plot and an amazing, breathtaking world. Praise the latter, for sure, but demand better than the former.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

It's a stripped-down version of System Shock 2. In the sea.




Posted by Speedfreak

For the record, stripping-down shouldn't automatically make a game worse.




Posted by WillisGreeny

But it does lower its starting value, making the execution more important.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I really liked the combat myself. Wasn't outstanding but it did its job fairly competently and never dragged down the experience. And since it felt like the focus was on the environment and story anyways, that's all it needed to be.

But maybe that's cause I didn't use the regular guns a whole lot.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

The one thing Bioshock failed to deliver on was its promise that you'd always be short for ammo and have to come up with inventive ways to kill enemies. I spent the whole game shooting fire bees and electric buckshots with no real presence of a limit.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

That and the last thirty minutes. Only to faults in my opinion.

I mean, they gave me so much ammo and health I left a ton behind. Which didn't really bother me. Not a fan of running out ammo actually.




Posted by Ant

at least iwata doesn't have to apologise for bioshock




Posted by Speedfreak

Or Metroid Prime 3.




Posted by Klarth

[quote]Iron Koala disagrees: Stop making rep important by actually using it for its purpose, grammar nazi.
oh man negative rep what now motherfucker




Posted by Klarth

[quote]I don't really agree with netman saying it's like Halo under the sea.
Halo was a generalisation. The item-scavenging and exploring elements that are apparently hot **** for everyone who liked Bioshock are so rife in modern games that I didn't think a single bloody thing about them was special.


Quoting Fate: I don't play games in pieces, but as a sum of its parts. It's about how the game is presented to me as a whole. It would be incredibly stupid to take away any part of the game that is shown. It's like saying, "If that chick didn't have such a dog face, she'd be pretty cute."
Bioshock is ultimately far ****ing less than the sum of its parts on account of the cackhanded way everything's been thrown together. The feature list is impressive enough, but when a game boasts about how it has this bell and that whistle and SEVENTEEN SPECIAL DONGLES I'm pretty ****ing skeptical about how cohesive the experience is.

[quote]And FYI, I can't play ANY console game without the sound of the game. It's counter-intuitive and just doesn't make sense to how the game is presented to me.

Oh come on for ****'s sake that post was dripping in sarcasm



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: The item-scavenging and exploring elements that are apparently hot **** for everyone who liked Bioshock are so rife in modern games that I didn't think a single bloody thing about them was special.


Item scavenging actually had a purpose though. It's not just cog tags for an achievement, but audio diaries that made the story really stand out and tonics that boosted your power considerably. In most games it's just a one time use weapon or some trifle that you need to collect for no reason.



Posted by WillisGreeny

[quote=netman;876000]oh man negative rep what now motherfu[COLOR=white]c[/COLOR]ker

Why can't you pay less attention to me? SRSLY. I hate disapointing you all the time.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro V. Empire;876126]Item scavenging actually had a purpose though. It's not just cog tags for an achievement, but audio diaries that made the story really stand out and tonics that boosted your power considerably. In most games it's just a one time use weapon or some trifle that you need to collect for no reason.

Metroid, Resident Evil, Zelda, Pok




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Not for shooter-centric games really. In that regard it's usually just ammo or guns. Or tonics I guess. But audio diaries stand more or less alone in the shooter genre (Halo 3 had something similar.)




Posted by Klarth

Bioshock's audio diaries are the equivalent of one-sided NPC conversations you get in every single video game with a silent protagonist ever. There is nothing special about them.




Posted by Fate

The way they speak in present tense is frightening. It's like reading a diary in Resident Evil about how itchy someone's skin feels after a virus breaks out. YOU know the result, but they didn't at the time.

Go ahead and keep being a cynic.




Posted by Speedfreak

It's Metroid Lore and Pirate Logs with voice acting. A lot of the recordings are pretty bizarre, as in no one would record thoughts like that or record something while doing whatever they're doing.




Posted by Fate

If the recordings were everywhere, it IS safe to assume that a lot of people had those recording things. Also, from what I remember, there weren't too many (or any?) computer terminals that served as blogging devices or that were for personal use. So it makes sense that they would feel the compulsive need to record their last words. Kind of like if the world was ending, a lot of people would record it and put it on YouTube. :cookie:

And I remember actually liking the Lore and Logs in Metroid because it turned a ****ed-up environment into a working environment if you imagined it like it was explained in the text. It's slightly depressing but it all makes sense in the context of the game.

The problem is that you guys are too busy stripping parts of the game that MAKE it to just sit down and play the game without being a critic.




Posted by Speedfreak

I liked the lore in Metroid too, I just found the tapes kinda weird. I don't really have an issue with them, but I don't think they're amazing either. It's just what was done in Metroid.