DragonForce

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

Ok, I need to throw this down right now. Are Herman Li and Sam Totman not the craziest(and by crazy i mean good) guitarists in the past 10-20 years?! I mean DragonForce has got to be the best speed metal band I have ever listened to in my life, but if someone has something better in the genre, just post them.

Posted by Grave Wisdom

[quote=Aeroshadow5098;833685]Ok, I need to throw this down right now. Are Herman Li and Sam Totman not the craziest(and by crazy i mean good) guitarists in the past 10-20 years?! I mean DragonForce has got to be the best speed metal band I have ever listened to in my life, but if someone has something better in the genre, just post them.

Alright, first of all...DragonForce is far from the best Power Metal band in existence.

Are they the fastest? POSSIBLY, but they use studio trickery to get there.

Herman Li and Sam Totman do have some talent, but again neither are the best of guitarists.

For one they are terrible songwriters, For two they can't pull off their music even half as well in a live setting, for three they are only being talked about because of how fast they play. The truth is, they use studio tricks to speed up their music to what you hear on the albums.

I can also think of many MANY Power Metal bands I prefer over DF: Helloween, Gamma Ray, Rhapsody, Blind Guardian, Hammerfall,even the similarly named DragonLand to name but of a few.

DragonForce is one of the most over-rated bands in a long time, and the only reason people are even discussing them so much is their "ZOMGZ INCREDIBULLZ SPPPEEDZ!"

In short, die plz :)

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

ok, after you posted that, i went ahead and did some research...

First, I challenged what you said on how "they do studio trickery" or whatever the hell you said to pull off their speed by looking up on youtube for live videos. I watched them do their famous Through the Fire and Flames song and it sounded different, but that doesn't mean they can't match the speed they do in studio. I watched the solo part and I believe I am satisfied with they have amazing speed. Not only that, but they even have their wittle own instructional DVD that proves their speed. I swear i've seen it more than 5-7 times and I see no speed change, only that some of it sounds just a little different. I did the same with other great songs like Valley of the ****ed and Fury of the Storm and still, they have matched the speed.

Second, the lyrics. Now, if you don't like the lyrics, then that's alright, it is your opinion. I understand that some of the stuff they say doesn't make a lot of sense, but all they sing about is fighting and dragons and war and all that other fun stuff, and to me, if you are singing about something like that, you don't have to make that much sense.

Third, what the hell is with the Just die thing? I mean my personality isn't completely described about my opinions of music. But maybe it's just that avatar you have there kicking in. Not saying you are a complete jerk though.

Finally, I have heard of some of those bands before, but I can't say I have heard of DragonLand.

Posted by Roger Smith

Don't mind Grave. He is a bitter ******* and is upset that someone likes something he doesn't.

But yeah, I like DF. Like I read somewhere, listening to their music makes you wanna drop kick the first person you see in the face. I haven't done it.

Posted by Fragliche

I could go into detail as to the many reasons I loathe DragonForce, but I've learned after many other times of getting "U SUX" from people that it's just a complete waste of time.

WITH EASE, I SHALL SIMPLY SAY THIS: I fucking hate DragonForce. They are overrated and I want to stab my ear drums every time I hear one of their annoyingly speedy songs being played.


Quoting Aeroshadow5098: Are Herman Li and Sam Totman not the craziest(and by crazy i mean good) guitarists in the past 10-20 years?!

They are not.

Quoting Aeroshadow5098: DragonForce has got to be the best speed metal band I have ever listened to

SPEED METAL?! ARE YOU SLIGHTLY AUTISTIC OR WERE YOU DROPPED UPON YOUR HEAD AS A CHILD? DragonForce is POWER METAL. :/

Quoting Aeroshadow5098: DragonForce has got to be the best speed metal band I have ever listened to in my life

Your life is a short, terrible, tasteless one. Go to your local music store and beg for forgiveness from the ***'s of music.
Posted by Richaod

I won't bother reiterating my entire blog post about them... so I'll just [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Richaod/journal/2008/03/14/673676/]link to it[/url].

Evidence that they are formulaic:




Sure they're a fun, enjoyable band, but does their music really have any worth?

Posted by Roger Smith

It's funny how ppl will put so much effort into disagreeing on something lol.

Posted by Shade

It's funny that people put so much effort into defending a band such as DragonForce. Their efforts never being nearly as persuasive as those hating the band.

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

Quoting Shade: It's funny that people put so much effort into defending a band such as DragonForce. Their efforts never being nearly as persuasive as those hating the band.


Well, it is pointless that we do that over bands like DragonForce, and I have thought over about how stupid I can get when it comes to arguing, but people don't have to be *******s by saying something like "are you autistic?". seriously, I know how i mixed myself up on that one between power metal and speed metal, but they don't have to say stupid things.

Anyways, people can say that they aren't that good, but I will still not change my mind that they are flippin amazing and, I admit, that from time to time I do switch from DragonForce to something else because I do get bored of them, but it doesn't happen that often.\

ok, now to Richahod. I love how you actually have a good, exlpanative, not being so much of a jerk arguement. You do have a point there about their music, and I happened to love going through the blog you posted. So I will agree with you on the part that they are fun to listen too, but not as good as people would think they are if you had that kind of information, but, I will say this over and over again, I think nothing can beat DragonForce right now on my music fav list.
Posted by Hyperactive Poster

Dragon force is very repetitive, and most of their awesomeness is fueled by speed which doesn't equal good.

Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Shade: It's funny that people put so much effort into defending a band such as DragonForce. Their efforts never being nearly as persuasive as those hating the band.


Oh lawd, I shoulda expected shade to swoop in here and try to blow stuff up.

btw guys, i totally did some research on df to try to cancel out these horrible accusations against them. Looks like all my EFFORT has gone to waste. Shame.
Posted by Shade

I swooped down and snatched up your trout of statement in my talons.

Posted by Hyperactive Poster

Quoting Roger Smith:
btw guys, i totally did some research on df to try to cancel out these horrible accusations against them. Looks like all my EFFORT has gone to waste. Shame.


You expect us to believe this bull****? You doing research? I find it hard to believe that you can navigate the internet.


You cannot deny that they are repetitive, and extremely so at that.

I wouldn't say they are terrible, but they are not anything great.
Posted by Omni

Quoting Roger Smith: It's funny how ppl will put so much effort into hating something lol.


First off, other people have made threads about things they liked and gotten the same reaction from you. Secondly, the guy was asking what people thought about the band, so people posted their opinions. Discussions don't solely exist of agreeing positive opinions.

Nearly all of their songs follow the exact same structure, and almost the exact same BPM. On top of that, they can't replicate what they play in studio live. Oh, and did I mention that there's guitarists who can actually play at least as fast as them and replicate it live?

[quote=Richaod on Last.fm]Every song follows the structure:
Intro, really fast bit, verse, pre-chorus which sounds deceptively like a chorus, chorus, verse with slightly different video game sound at the start, pre-chorus, chorus, a capella vocal harmonies, slow dual guitar leads, 8 traded solos between the guitarists, unison sweep arpeggios backed by blastbeats, ascending whooo-oooaaahs section, chorus transposed up a tone, noodly shredding to finish

Verses always begin with video game harmonics, move into palm-muted sixteenth notes which begin to incorporate a 123/123/12 grouping halfway through the verse
Totally interchangeable song sections*
Pre-choruses/choruses never contain rhythm, only held power chords
90% of your songs are in G major, and 5% in E
Every second song's chorus rips off the Canon in D chord progression
The guitarists know no chords other than power chords
The guitarists can't replicate their solos live due to shredding so directionless they don't even know the notes
The guitarists' amp settings are: treble - 11, middle - 5, bass - 0
The guitarists can't complete their own songs on Guitar Hero
Specifically Asian guitarist to bring the computer geekery - his day job is a Unix system administrator
The main songwriter is actually the other guitarist**
Bassist has a completely token role beyond a single fill at the start of the second verse in one song on each album
Keyboardist has only four presets - video game noises, power ballad piano, synth strings and synth choir
The drummer actually only ever plays one pattern in the verses; a sped-up d-beat punk rhythm***
The vocalist wears tight leather pants to compensate for disappointment at not being a castrato
Nintendo is a main songwriting influence
When you run out of songwriting ideas, you take out your metronome and increase the BPM
Susceptible to containing homoerotic innuendo****
Mandatory inclusion of a single power ballad on each album
Your friend renamed all the songs from album to those from another and you couldn't tell the difference
Each album is actually a concept album
You didn't know that until just then
Suitable for muted sessions of World of WarCraft
Failed definition of inspirationally epic*****
Pretentious claims to classical influence******
Victims of online fanboyism/Blabbermouth saturation
Beer and groupies are a major motivation for existence

Yeah, so basically all of their songs are interchangeable and none of them are actually of any musical value aside from "zomg fast" factor, which they can't even pull off live.

Oh, and all of the current members of DragonForce except for the drummer and the guitarist were in a black metal band called Demoniac, which had racist and anti-gay lyrics, and they've decided it's better to sell records than admit the band existed, let alone explain or apologize for it. I doubt most of their fans would approve of song titles like "Kill All the Faggots (Death Squad Anthem)" and "Niggerslut." The fact that they've never officially addressed this is proof enough that they aren't apologetic and they're too worried about hurting their fan base and record sales.

If you don't feel like reading this entire thing, here's the short version: DragonForce is a bunch of guys who make crappy repetitive music that relies solely on being fast without actually containing any semblance of music theory, can't play it live, and are too worried about record sales to admit that they've made racist music.
Posted by Richaod

Quoting Aeroshadow5098: I think nothing can beat DragonForce right now on my music fav list.


The power metal bands Grave Wisdom listed... Blind Guardian, Rhapsody etc. The latter might be about as formulaic as DragonForce, but I find their music much more interesting.

Yeah, I don't really take issue with people liking DragonForce (that blog was for fun) so much as people liking them and not knowing of other, better power metal, which seems to be the case with you. So go and check out a few of those bands.
Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Hyperactive Poster: You expect us to believe this bull****? You doing research? I find it hard to believe that you can navigate the internet.


Your an idiot. Contemplate, then attempt suicide plz.

Quoting Omni: First off, other people have made threads about things they liked and gotten the same reaction from you.


I try to spread my awsomeness around as many people as possible.
Posted by Shade

All you need is one DragonForce song, and you pretty much have all of them. They're the most wallet friendly band on the planet, and we should thank them for that.

Posted by Roger Smith

DragonForce makes Stepmania fun. Without them SM would suck. Not really bad, just wouldn't be much a challenge.

Posted by Omni

Playing a song with lots of extreme changes in tempo would probably be much harder.

Posted by oxpecker123

Quoting Roger Smith: DragonForce makes Stepmania fun. Without them SM would suck. Not really bad, just wouldn't be much a challenge.

what about a dragon force song being on guitar hero?
Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting oxpecker123: what about a dragon force song being on guitar hero?


You should go try to play a DF song on SM.
Posted by Aeroshadow5098

Quoting Richaod: The power metal bands Grave Wisdom listed... Blind Guardian, Rhapsody etc. The latter might be about as formulaic as DragonForce, but I find their music much more interesting.

Yeah, I don't really take issue with people liking DragonForce (that blog was for fun) so much as people liking them and not knowing of other, better power metal, which seems to be the case with you. So go and check out a few of those bands.


well, I have listened to some of them, and they are pretty good, but I still kinda like DragonForce just a bit better, but, aside from that, I'm pretty sure that there are some better bands out there, just bands I haven't listened to or found yet. Though, I might find them soon, seeing that my uncle, who is a power-metal maniac, is living with me for the time being.

oh, and speaking of stepmania and dragonforce, Roger Smith is correct on saying that dragonforce on sm is freakin insane, and i'll say that whoever can do one of the songs has too much time on their hands or is just pro at games like that.
Posted by Richaod

I can do DragonForce well on Frets on Fire... but on StepMania the sheer amount of notes is just too much for the brain to process.

Posted by Grave Wisdom

The thing is, I don't even hate DragonForce.

What ****es me off is how freakin' over-rated they are, by trendy scenester kids who know NOTHING about Power Metal or what it even is.


They are made out to be something they aren't, and they are far from genius songwriters or musicians.

They record the same song over and over, outside of including a token ballad on each album for the rawk b!tches. They are tolerable and completely unoffensive, but severely lacking in artistic merit or having memorable music.

Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Richaod: but on StepMania the sheer amount of notes is just too much for the brain to process.


[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Roger_Smith0/Stepmania/FieldsofDispair.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Roger_Smith0/Stepmania/GroundandPound.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Roger_Smith0/Stepmania/AboveTheWinterMoonlight.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Roger_Smith0/Stepmania/Superiority.jpg[/IMG]

Yeah so I call bull**** on that quote Richaod.
Posted by Shade

Way to have a life

Posted by Roger Smith

So says the guy who spends his time finding my posts just to troll them.

Also, you will never as good as me on Stepmania. Ever. Take that to the grave with you.

PATIENCE, TIME AND DEDICATION FAGGOTS. WHAT DO YOU ALL KNOW OF THESE WORDS?

Posted by Shade

[quote]So says the guy who spends his time finding my posts just to troll them.

What an insightful analysis of my posting behavior.

Posted by Roger Smith

Oh Shade, you've turned into such a supercool internet badass.

Posted by Omni

Quoting Roger Smith: Also, you will never as good as me on Stepmania. Ever. Take that to the grave with you.

PATIENCE, TIME AND DEDICATION FAGGOTS. WHAT DO YOU ALL KNOW OF THESE WORDS?


Hey, Roger. Nobody really cares about your StepMania scores. Nobody really cares how much patience, time and dedication you put into getting a high score on some game almost nobody plays with an annoying song.

You could have put that patience, time and dedication into something productive. Especially something more productive than arguing with other people on an internet forum about your high score and how dedicated to you were to patiently putting in time to finally be able to get it.

Nobody cares.
Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Omni: Hey, Roger. Nobody really cares about your StepMania scores. Nobody really cares how much patience, time and dedication you put into getting a high score on some game almost nobody plays with an annoying song.

You could have put that patience, time and dedication into something productive. Especially something more productive than arguing with other people on an internet forum about your high score and how dedicated to you were to patiently putting in time to finally be able to get it.

Nobody cares.


YEAAAHHHHHH, JUST WHAT I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR! HEY OMNI, YOUR NOT A CHICK, YOUR A GUY! YEAH THAT'S RIGHT, COME ON COME ON!

I care that you care enough about this to not care.
Posted by Omni

No offense, but stop trolling while accusing everyone else who posts in the same thread as you of trolling. It's obnoxious.

Posted by Roger Smith

Stop blowing stuff up to stupid proportions. So me and the local internet badass had some troll posts.

But all this talk of trolls is making me want to live under a bridge. Lets talk about music.

Posted by Omni

That's funny. I'm pretty sure that people were talking about music and sharing their opinions, something they're entitled to do since the original poster asked what people thought about this band, until a certain member of this site decided to come into this thread and say that they were putting a lot of effort into hating something, which wasn't on topic.

So does anyone else find it funny that DragonForce is a bunch of closet fascists who made crappy music before forming an even crappier band designed specifically to sell repetitive music and denying the existence of the first one to avoid alienating fans opposed to racism and fascism?

Posted by Shade

Quoting Roger Smith: Stop blowing stuff up to stupid proportions. So me and the local internet badass had some troll posts.


I'm not local. I'm international.
Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Omni: That's funny. I'm pretty sure that people were talking about music and sharing their opinions, something they're entitled to do since the original poster asked what people thought about this band, until a certain member of this site decided to come into this thread and say that they were putting a lot of effort into hating something, which wasn't on topic.


People were expressing their dislike and disagreement on some things about DF, so if anything, I chose the wrong word. So if your gonna make a fuss, I'll totally edit my post from hate to disagreeing. In fact, i will.

[quote]So does anyone else find it funny that DragonForce is a bunch of closet fascists who made crappy music before forming an even crappier band designed specifically to sell repetitive music and denying the existence of the first one to avoid alienating fans opposed to racism and fascism?

Those closet fascists sure do make SM a challange.

I just thought of something too. Seems when I try to defend DF by saying their insane fast songs make SM quite a challange, you seem to bawwww on SM and then bawwwww on me for bringing up SM.

So hey, **** you all.
Posted by Shade

Saying their songs make SM a challenge is a pretty weak defense. The prosecution would get a guilty verdict in no time.

Posted by Roger Smith

Dude Shade...seriously just shut the **** up.

Posted by Shade

Nice retort.

Posted by Omni

Quoting Roger Smith: Those closet fascists sure do make SM a challange.

I just thought of something too. Seems when I try to defend DF by saying their insane fast songs make SM quite a challange, you seem to bawwww on SM and then bawwwww on me for bringing up SM.

So hey, **** you all.


Oh, yeah. Because I totally was bashing StepMania before you posted this:
[quote]Also, you will never as good as me on Stepmania. Ever. Take that to the grave with you.

PATIENCE, TIME AND DEDICATION FAGGOTS. WHAT DO YOU ALL KNOW OF THESE WORDS?

I can't figure out why you post argumentatively and then get mad when people disagree with you. Oh, wait. You're trolling.
Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Shade: Nice retort.


I'm trying to stop all current trolling faggotry but you keep going.

Quoting Omni: Oh, yeah. Because I totally was bashing StepMania before you posted this:

I can't figure out why you post argumentatively and then get mad when people disagree with you. Oh, wait. You're trolling.


I did that to spite shade. Show me where else I've posted like that on purpose to troll in a thread outside Wacko.

I simply say that I mainly like DF because their songs make for good challenge in SM. Now the way this thread is happening, you aren't allow to make reference to SM because hardly anyone plays it, and you aren't allowed to voice you opinion about DragonForce if it pertains to SM. And you can't poke fun at all the ppl on this board who dislike DF without getting labeled a troll.

Oh and also, Shade can troll all he wants and get no finger lifted at him. I guess there's only limited space for non-trolls on this board.

I don't get the logic here. So all of you can suck my mellow yellow cock.
Posted by Roger Smith

Quoting Omni: Oh, yeah. Because I totally was bashing StepMania before you posted this:

I can't figure out why you post argumentatively and then get mad when people disagree with you. Oh, wait. You're trolling.


I did that to spite shade. Show me where else I've posted like that on purpose to troll?

I simply say that I mainly like DF because their songs make for good challenge in SM. Now the way this thread is happening, you aren't allow to make reference to SM because hardly anyone plays it, and you aren't allowed to voice you opinion about DragonForce if it pertains to SM.

I don't get the logic here.
Posted by Shade

[quote]and you aren't allowed to voice you opinion about DragonForce if it pertains to SM.

Right, because SM doesn't necessarily pertain to music, which is what the thread is about.

[quote]Oh and also, Shade can troll all he wants and get no finger lifted at him.

Probably because I'm barely trolling. :cookie:

Posted by Dark Bulb 4.3

harder than ****ing diamonds

whats stratovarius considered btw

fun to listen to, but after hearing one song, they all sound similar, all are racing to the finish, all the lyrics suck ***, and everything tries to have some sort of epic feel. Many more interesting bands with in my opinion have much greater writing and playing abilities.

Posted by Richaod

Roger Smith:

1. Did you have to brag?
2. Did
[quote=Richaod]on StepMania the sheer amount of notes is just too much for the brain to process.
refer to you?

Answer to both: I think not.

Posted by Hyperactive Poster

[quote]Dude Shade...seriously just shut the **** up.
[quote]Nice retort.
[quote]I'm trying to stop all current trolling faggotry but you keep going.

Yeah because

[quote]Dude Shade...seriously just shut the **** up.

Is really an attempt to halt trolling.

Posted by Skitzo Control

Hey, here's an idea, QQ some more. :D
---
I'm not really a fan of DragonForce, for the simple fact all their music is nothing but "GO FASTER!" If all you're looking for is fast, listen to Metallica. Then again, just listen to anything Kirk Hammett has ever done. EVER.

Posted by Fragliche

Quoting Skitzo Control: If all you're looking for is fast, listen to Metallica.

That was slightly acceptable until;

Quoting Skitzo Control: Then again, just listen to anything Kirk Hammett has ever done. EVER.

ST. ANGER. Whoops, there goes Kirk Hammett.
Posted by Ant

Interesting Fact: If you're driving in a car blasting Dragonforce at 100mph you can break through a diamond wall.

Posted by Skitzo Control

[quote=Fragliche;841809]ST. ANGER. Whoops, there goes Kirk Hammett.The album was bad, overall, but Kirk (and James, too) played FAST, and that was my point. I didn't say, "Oh, hey, he plays fast and everything he plays is very good!" I just said it was fast.:)

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

Quoting Ant: Interesting Fact: If you're driving in a car blasting Dragonforce at 100mph you can break through a diamond wall.


...lmfao... i hadn't realised that at first but if ya think about it yeah it works
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Roger, stop posting in the music section.

Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

I second the concept of Roger stfu'ing in the music section

Posted by Shin-Ra

Dragonforce's music reminds me of pop-metal renditions of the Pokemon theme song. While they may be technically talented musicians, that's hardly how I judge a band. I'm not much for the Power Metal genre at all (because there's just not too much I find interesting about it) but there ARE better bands in this genre.

Posted by Omni

Quoting Shin-Ra: While they may be technically talented musicians


They aren't. Almost all of their songs are structurally identical and contain little other than power chords played at fast speeds that they can't even match outside of the studio.
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

They're the slipknot of metal LOLOL

Posted by Shin-Ra

Quoting Omni: They aren't. Almost all of their songs are structurally identical and contain little other than power chords played at fast speeds that they can't even match outside of the studio.


No, Herman IS a good guitar player. The songs are structurally unoriginal, etc, but you can't take that away from them. I mean Christ, have you even listened to one of his solos?
Posted by Omni

The fact that he can't play them live and they consist almost entirely of extremely fast power chords instead of any real technique leads me to believe he isn't a good guitar player.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

He's good. I mean, you can't deny that by definition of the word good he's good. He just can't repeat his own songs. Otherwise he can do some pretty good work on a guitar.

Posted by Ziggy R

Meh, who cares how good he actualy is? (Obviously, a lot of people)

Let it go, so what is they use studio tricks?

I, personaly, just like the band's music, screw the live performances.

Herman's not half bad, but I know a guy nearing his 50s if he's not already that's even better.

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

Herman Li is fukin amazing. one of the reasons i actually like DragonForce. but i kinda like King Diamond better than DragonForce now...

Posted by Shevanel

[quote]Herman Li is fukin amazing.
I suppose it's only natural that the only people who hold him in any esteem are illiterate Hot Topic customers.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: Let it go, so what is they use studio tricks?


haha, wow. never post in the music board again, thanks.
Posted by Omni

"So what if this band pretends they can play music better than they can and tricks their fans? I still like them!"

Posted by #061402

Try playing Audiosurf to one of their speedier songs. ;) Madness when you play Mono on Pro/Expert.

But I like them a lot more than I thought I would when I listened to some of their songs. Soldiers of the Wasteland, for example, is a really good song, but I'm sort of bothered by the lack of vocals in the middle.

Posted by Richaod

Quoting #061402: lack of vocals


Honestly, I think the only reason DragonForce don't get rid of their singer and make it all wankfest, all the time is because they wouldn't have any lyrical cheese... but with the lengths of their solos, they sure sound like they want to.
Posted by Shevanel

[quote]Honestly, I think the only reason DragonForce don't get rid of their singer and make it all wankfest, all the time is because they wouldn't have any lyrical cheese...
I'd say it's mainly down to the fact that they'd never get back onto MTV if their teenybopper fans couldn't sing along.

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

They should find a new singer, because they are hurtin big time.

but anyways, hooray for new album commin out. Can't wait to get it. I'm hoping it will be good and a lot of crazier solos than last time.

Posted by Shevanel

[quote]I'm hoping it will be good and a lot of crazier solos than last time.
Get fisted.

Posted by Richaod

I can't believe they actually called it Ultimate Beatdown...

they pretty much admitted they wouldn't be changing much though. Surprise, surprise.

Posted by Aeroshadow5098

So the singer is still in? ****. oh well, it still might be worth getting.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was called Ultimate Beatdown, considering their other album names. and hey, even if it is studio trickery, it still sounds freakin awesome.

Posted by Shade

No it doesn't. I never has, and it never will. The sooner you learn this the sooner your IQ will increase.

Posted by Ant

you're an idiot for liking what you like.

Posted by Shevanel

yeah that's pretty much true

artistic merit and such = completely objective

Posted by Richaod

Quoting Shevanel: yeah that's pretty much true

artistic merit and such = completely objective


Collective educated opinion pretty much = objectivity

"Educated" in this case can be defined as "people with experience regarding power metal and wanky solos".
Posted by Kendra, Warrior Babe

So, guys...

What would happen if Herman Li and Luca Turilli were put to a knock-down, drag-out, fight-to-the-death, winner-take-all metal cage match...?

Posted by Richaod

Quoting Kendra, Warrior Babe: So, guys...

What would happen if Herman Li and Luca Turilli were put to a knock-down, drag-out, fight-to-the-death, winner-take-all metal cage match...?


Luca Turilli would beat the **** out of Herman Li... but to be honest I can't think of a valid reason other than "Rhapsody are better" (i.e. I like one formula band over the other). :P

But Rhapsody have FIRE and Saruman...uh, Christopher Lee, so yeah.
Posted by Kendra, Warrior Babe

Not to mention, they have a real Knight as their narrator.

Posted by Shade

And Herman Li's a scrawny asian.

Posted by Kendra, Warrior Babe

But, Turilli's a fat Itallian.

**Edit:

According to Kendra's sister, while all Asians know karate, Luca has mind powers. He said so himself.

Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

this thread needs more Rhapsody gayness!:

"Oh, cruel, destiny... The tears soon covered the warrior's face and Tharos,
the beloved dragon, spread his wings for the last time, happy to have found
the freedom at least in death... Fly... fly high, mighty Tharos... Your name
will always be remembered by the people of the enchanted lands... and your
memory will march with us forever against the hordes of the black lord for
the salvation of the enchanted lands.
Goodbye, brother... goodbye...!"


I hate it when Rhapsody disturbs my listening with this ****, but I thought i'd share :)

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

That's basically every power metal band

Posted by Omni

SWORDS ARE MADE OF STEEL!

Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

everybody's got a gimmick. I prefer dragons and steel to frosted wastelands and vikings.

Posted by Richaod

Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: this thread needs more Rhapsody gayness!:

"Oh, cruel, destiny... The tears soon covered the warrior's face and Tharos,
the beloved dragon, spread his wings for the last time, happy to have found
the freedom at least in death... Fly... fly high, mighty Tharos... Your name
will always be remembered by the people of the enchanted lands... and your
memory will march with us forever against the hordes of the black lord for
the salvation of the enchanted lands.
Goodbye, brother... goodbye...!"


I hate it when Rhapsody disturbs my listening with this ****, but I thought i'd share :)

Their original narrator sounded so incredibly goofy. Hiring Christopher Lee was truly a stroke of genius (especially getting him to narrate standing still holding a sword on the DVD, yes, I own it) - and it improved the dialogue exponentially too.

"It was a good time for all creatures of the earth, but fate decreed that the dark prophecy of a demon knight could bring a tragic end to this peace
scarring their lives forever. Shortly before his defeat in the last of the primordial wars between the heavens and hells the evil son of the Hell *** Kron, known as Nekron, withdrew to his lair in the underworld.
There, sensing his impending deathhe inscribed a testament of pure evil in seven black books. One by one six of these books were discovered through out the ages, however the seventh, last and most terrible of all contained the secret of his resurrection. He commanded seven immortal demons to carry out his dark plan. But they were turned into stone by the angels of the crystal realms. And so his dreams slept with them until a time came when the forces of evil would usurp the earth. Nekron would rule in the unholy name! of cosmic chaos. And this time he would reign supreme!"

Him singing a metal version of Toreador is also one of the funniest things I've ever seen:
[youtube=R0Hpk6cw-k0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Hpk6cw-k0[/youtube]
Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

I think the original narrator was Fabio, which was why it sounded so teeth-grindingly gay

Posted by Shade

What is this business about a band having an official narrator.

I am surprised and somewhat revolted.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

many bands have used narrators.

Posted by Shade

Well I don't like it.

Something ominous is afoot.

Posted by Richaod

Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: I think the original narrator was Fabio, which was why it sounded so teeth-grindingly gay


Wikipedia says it was Sir Jay Lansford. I always liked Fabio's voice though - he has a nice vibrato and doesn't overdo it.

Shade: any concerns over a band having a narrator are automatically nullified by the fact that it's Christopher Lee.
Posted by Kendra, Warrior Babe

Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: I think the original narrator was Fabio, which was why it sounded so teeth-grindingly gay


Now, what about him supposedly narrating would make it gay...?

Quoting Richaod:
Shade: any concerns over a band having a narrator are automatically nullified by the fact that it's Christopher Lee.




[/Topic.]
Posted by Shade

So any of you guys check out that new Dragonforce album

Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

Quoting Kendra, Warrior Babe: Now, what about him supposedly narrating would make it gay...?


Fabio is the lead singer of Rhapsody (of Fire), and he's so feminine it's scary. He oozes gay.
Posted by Inferno

Eh, the only reason I tolerated Dragonforce is because of Stepmania as well. I loved that game and there really wasn't anything harder than Dragonforce songs back when I played it like 3 years ago. Once I AA'ed Fury of the Storm [/useless brag] I never played or listened to them again. I have to agree with what people here are saying, I thought they were insanely awesome for a while just because when I heard it for the first time I considered the guitar solos amazing and it dragged me in. But after I listened to more of the music which has the exact same wankery as every other song, I got bored.

Posted by Richaod

Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: Fabio is the lead singer of Rhapsody (of Fire), and he's so feminine it's scary. He oozes gay.


I think HammerFall's singer is more feminine, to be honest...
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: So any of you guys check out that new Dragonforce album


Leaked? if so, I want to hear it. If only because it's called Ultra Beatdown. It has to suck with a name like that.
Posted by Richaod



LOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

Possibly the first time a female has ever been associated with DragonForce.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Dude, that cover is badass. It's just so bad it's like... man, this is really awesome. One can only hope the music is relatively the same as the cover. And if I know DragonForce it will be.

Posted by Richaod

Looks like they've upped the Nintendo and cut down on the dragons.

Posted by Pit

RAISE OUR SWORDS WE FIGHT FOR LIGHT
SHIELDS AND ARMOR SHINING BRIGHT
[some more crappy lyrics]
[quote=Omni]SWORDS ARE MADE OF STEEL!

Posted by Nazo

Quoting Omni: Playing a song with lots of extreme changes in tempo would probably be much harder.


With SM? Wrong.

When a song constantly changes, it's much easier than doing the same steps over and over. You can do the stream, but can you keep repeating it? Lol, not really. Sooner or later, you **** up, get off beat, and fail.

Granted, the DF songs of SM change their patterns constantly. Tempo changing songs are nothing. Why? There's a speed mod which we (Roger and I) use called C600, which keeps the song's pace going at 600 bpm. Though, I've sped myself up to 700 now. >>

As for the band, yes some songs are repetitive, not to mention sometimes obvious. As you stated once Omni, a lyric line from one of their songs "Swords are made of steel!" is blantly obvious. >_>

Some of DF's songs are repeats of theirselves; Like Operation Ground and Pound is just a revamped version of Through the Fire and the Flames. However; There are some of their songs that differ from each other. Most likely NOT in a huge way, but in many ways.

For instance, Disciples of Babylon sounds nothing like Valley of the ****ed. Valley of the ****ed sounds absolutely nothing like Through the Fire and the Flames. Through the Fire and the Flames sounds nothing like Above the Winter Moonlight. [Above the Winter Moonlight sounds nothing like Soldiers of the Wasteland. Now granted, BPM and some sounds may be similar, but they're, in DragonForce's case, supposed to. I've said many times in another forum (WF, which is now forgotten) that DragonForce is a themed power metal band. Now, that's no excuse for some poorly written lyrics, and BPM similarities, but it's an excuse for songs being similar, and usually having many of the same analogies in each song.

For those who say DragonForce can't replicate what's on disc; you're possibly incorrect. (Notice the possibly, meaning I may be incorrect in this opinion as well.) For one, they have the speed, so I'm quite sure they would be able to replicate it. For two, for anyone who's actually took the time to watch a live video, or have seen them live, should know that they act freaking insane on stage. Even the vocalist. He jumps around on stage, probably catching himself out of breath, thus causing his voice to fail in later songs. Beginning songs are really well played IMO.

As for the tweaking in studio tricks... All they do is pull out the "muffle" sounds, and sometimes cut out some messups, or parts they didn't like. The band's guitarists, I've heard, practice their playing ever day for six hours straight. (Whether that's true or not, I can't prove it.)

Now, is DragonForce over rated? You bet your ****ing *** they are.
Are they enjoyable? Indeed. Everytime you listen to them, or any 'okay' power metal band, you just feel like, "Drop kicking someone in the face."
Are some of their songs rediculous? Yup.

I agree with many negatives, and many positives with DragonForce, however, I'm willing to bet, no matter how good, or how terrible their later workings are, I'll still listen, because I love to feel like I can beat the **** out of someone if they **** with me while listening to them.

Souly at Omni: The tidbit about some of the members being from Demonica; I for one really don't care about past mistakes of any of the band's members. Past is past. And good sir, past does not define person, but rather the present and the future to tell what they'll be.

And I know a lot of people that know about Demonica, they say they don't care. As long as music keeps sounding good, they don't give a flying demonic bird in hell for an apology. "Just keep playing."

In conclusion: TL;DR
Posted by Omni

I didn't read your whole post, because I don't care that much, but there's plenty of singers who run and jump around a lot on stage, probably moreso than the guy from DragonForce, who can still sing an entire set without running out of breath or losing their voice.

Posted by Nazo

All vocalists are different.

Posted by Omni

Just saying, I wouldn't want to listen to some guy lose his voice on stage and keep trying to sing. If it effects his performance so much, he shouldn't act like a retard on stage.

Oh, and the person who's seen them live more than anyone else in this thread says they mess up playing the fastest parts of their songs live, plus I've seen videos where they do, so I wouldn't want to see them.

Basically, if a band messes up their songs live regularly, even if it's because they're fooling around, I wouldn't want to see them live in concert. If they're unwilling to perform properly on stage, there's no reason why they should even bother.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: I didn't read your whole post, because I don't care that much, but there's plenty of singers who run and jump around a lot on stage, probably moreso than the guy from DragonForce, who can still sing an entire set without running out of breath or losing their voice.


Bruce Dickinson please. Most energetic 50 year-old on stage and still sounds great live.
Posted by Omni

Freddie Mercury

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Even dead he still sounds better live than what's his face.

Posted by Omni

The guy smoked for years, had chronic vocal nodules (look this up if you don't know what it means), toured non-stop for years playing extremely long and grueling sets and probably did more on stage than just about anyone else, but he always sounded great (by great, I mean just plain better than everyone else) even during his final tour and up until just weeks from his death.

Posted by Omni

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d8WniiAj69k

Final complete song, with vocals recorded in one take within two weeks of his death.

Posted by Shade

Quoting Richaod:


That's actually a new character spoiler for Gears of War 2.

A song from the new album, "Heroes of Our Time" was put on the MySpace today. It's pretty bad, I got bored and couldn't finish it.
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

new multiplayer model.

although at first I did think that was a chainsaw on that gun.

Posted by Nazo

Quoting Omni: Just saying, I wouldn't want to listen to some guy lose his voice on stage and keep trying to sing. If it effects his performance so much, he shouldn't act like a retard on stage.

Oh, and the person who's seen them live more than anyone else in this thread says they mess up playing the fastest parts of their songs live, plus I've seen videos where they do, so I wouldn't want to see them.

Basically, if a band messes up their songs live regularly, even if it's because they're fooling around, I wouldn't want to see them live in concert. If they're unwilling to perform properly on stage, there's no reason why they should even bother.


Precisely why I don't think they're a concert worthy band. On disc, yeah. But I never said they were good live. Just said they were capable of replicating their songs. -shrug-

As for Freddie Mercury's voice "sounding better than anyone else." That's a bias statement. Everything about music is subjective, and Freddie Mercury's voice is unflattered to my ears.

And no, that's not a defense for saying DF is better then him, nor am I implimating they are. Their style is more my type though.

Plus: I do believe I said possibly is why the DF vocalist sounds ****ty in concert is because he jumps around and stuff. Meaning, it's my own opinion of what's happening. Hell, they get paid for concerts, maybe they just don't give a ****, and just do what they want.
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: Everything about music is subjective, and Freddie Mercury's voice is unflattered to my ears.


Vocal talent isn't subjective. He's objectively one of the best vocalists to date.
Posted by Omni

Much like technical skill on instruments, actual vocal ability and talent isn't subjective. He may be my favorite singer ever, but he's also objectively one of the best and most versatile singers that's ever recorded music. The guy in DragonForce doesn't even hold a candle to him, and neither do most modern metal singers.

Posted by Shade

I can play Yankee Doodle on guitar. In my opinion, I am the greatest guitarist to ever live.

Posted by Omni

Technical, as used in "technical skill" or "technical ability":
[quote=the dictionary]4. skilled in or familiar in a practical way with a particular art, trade, etc., as a person.
5. of, pertaining to, or showing technique.
6. technically demanding or difficult: a technical violin sonata; a technical ski run.
7. more advanced or complex; more intricate

Skill:
[quote]1. the measured ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2. competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3. a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience

I'm just posting this in case there's any question about what technical skill is, since apparently some people are under the impression that technical is a subjective word in all of its definitions, and that vocal ability is subjective, when the ability to do something is a measurable attribute.

Posted by Kendra, Warrior Babe

Quoting Omni: Technical, as used in "technical skill" or "technical ability":


Skill:


I'm just posting this in case there's any question about what technical skill is, since apparently some people are under the impression that technical is a subjective word in all of its definitions, and that vocal ability is subjective, when the ability to do something is a measurable attribute.



Posted by Shade

Nice try at being witty.

If you can name the comic you might just redeem yourself a bit.

Posted by Omni

I posted it because Nazo made a big deal about someone saying the word "technical" or maybe "technicality" once before, saying it was a subjective word, when it clearly has a few very objective definitions, and also because vocal ability isn't subjective since it's based on very tangible characteristics and a measurable level of skill and ability.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

In short: Nazo is dumb.

Posted by Nazo

>_>

Wow, one of those people who have to insult to try an win an argument. Pitty.

Anyway, I meant music, and yes, vocal talent IS subject to a person's point of view. There maybe papers, and ratings, and all kinds of interviews with people to "talley up" the talent of people and rate it as fact. But that is to majoritorize opinions.

A single person's pov is subjective, and a person's pov can be used on anything. Even vocal talent.

To most Mercury was a great vocalist. I think maybe... 1 or 2 songs with him I liked, but only because they were more along my style. His voice wasn't that great to me.

Oh snap. I used an opinion on a person's voice. I must be an idiot because talent, in anything, isn't relatively subjective. My bad for using my own point of view.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: Wow, one of those people who have to insult to try an win an argument. Pitty.


Argument was already won. You're wrong, simple. Vocal talent is objective. You're either talented or not and Mercury has more talent than nearly any other vocalist.

Now, whether you like his vocals are not is completely irrelevant. Taste is subjective (which you clearly lack,) which for some *** forsaken reason you're confusing with talent and skill which are completely objective. How do you not get this?
Posted by Nazo

Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Argument was already won. You're wrong, simple. Vocal talent is objective.


Whatever you have to say to make yourself feel better than everyone else, dude.

Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Mercury has more talent than nearly any other vocalist.


No no. The correct statement would be: "Mercury has more talent than nearly any other vocalist, in my opinion."

Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Now, whether you like his vocals are not is completely irrelevant. Taste is subjective (which you clearly lack,) which for some *** forsaken reason you're confusing with talent and skill which are completely objective. How do you not get this?


(or*)

And you're wrong. I didn't mean "taste" in the sense of the guy's talent. Taste is style. Style isn't the opinion on the vocalist.

For instance: I ****ing hate Panic at the Disco, but in my opinion, their vocalist has much talent. You don't have to like something to say it has talent, that's being bias. Which is precisely what you're being.

Music, and anything in it's aspect IS subjective. Saying vocal talent isn't subjective is like saying acting talent isn't subjective. And believe me, I've had that discussion with Omni, and I quoted and posted it in a thread. Do you know what he did when everyone started to call him stupid or saying he must be joking? He said, "obviously it was a joke."

So question for Omni; ... If you were joking about acting talent being objective, then why is vocal talent now objective? Or were you "just joking" again?

And to everyone that doesn't think vocal talent isn't subjective... go look up Point of View. Because, lol, people's POV's are what determine ANYTHING.
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: And you're wrong. I didn't mean "taste" in the sense of the guy's talent. Taste is style. Style isn't the opinion on the vocalist.


Taste is what you like and don't like, thus defining your style. Taste is personal and that is subjective. That determines your opinion on the vocalist. He doesn't fit your style you don't like him. But, like you said, you don't have to like something to recognize talent. Why? Because one is subjective and one is objective. There's no "point of view" for something that is objective, and that includes pure vocal talent. Style doesn't factor into whether someone can sing or not. You may not like what he's singing or the style in which he's singing it, but that's irrelevant. It all comes down to ability and that, again, is objective, and that is what Mercury has in spades.

Also, I'm not being biased. My opinion on Queen and my ability to recognize the talent of Queen's vocalist are fairly separate. It's not the former that creates the latter, but the complete opposite. It's his skill that drew me, and basically every other Queen fan, to their music. So calling me biased is pretty silly.

As for that whole actor thing, I couldn't care less what Omni said about whatever. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand since what determines acting ability and what determines vocal ability are fairly different.

Quoted post: (or*)


Check over your own posts before you feel the need to correct mine. protip.
Posted by Richaod

Quoting Nazo: >_>

Wow, one of those people who have to insult to try an win an argument. Pitty.

Anyway, I meant music, and yes, vocal talent IS subject to a person's point of view. There maybe papers, and ratings, and all kinds of interviews with people to "talley up" the talent of people and rate it as fact. But that is to majoritorize opinions.

A single person's pov is subjective, and a person's pov can be used on anything. Even vocal talent.

To most Mercury was a great vocalist. I think maybe... 1 or 2 songs with him I liked, but only because they were more along my style. His voice wasn't that great to me.

Oh snap. I used an opinion on a person's voice. I must be an idiot because talent, in anything, isn't relatively subjective. My bad for using my own point of view.


You're still missing the point. What they mean is that "vocal talent" refers to things like vocal range - which is clearly not subjective. It's mathematical, in fact - Freddie Mercury had a recorded range of four octaves, and was certainly one of the best pop/rock vocalists ever in that regard - he was a natural baritone singing mostly in the tenor range, which is ridiculously hard to do. I should know because that's true of me as well (and I'm not nearly as gifted as Freddie was).

And I'm not a massive fan of Queen, by the way. I really respect them but I can't entirely get over the camp factor in their music.
Posted by Omni

Nazo: Vocal ability isn't subjective, since it can be measured. Something like acting, which has no defined list of what actually determines ability since it's largely based around pretense, is not easily objectively measured.

Since Freddie Mercury is a more versatile vocalist, with more vocal power, vocal range, ability to sing properly across multiple different styles (including opera, which is the most difficult singing style) in his head voice or falsetto, and his vocal output was consistently powerful, he's objectively one of the most technically able and enduring vocalists.

If you think that a measurable ability such as singing is subjective, I'd suggest that you talk to a professionally musically trained expert on singing and vocal training, because they'd probably laugh in your face.

Posted by Omni

Oh, and someone lock this, because everyone who likes DragonForce has already posted here, and this argument is completely retarded.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

If Nazo still disagrees he truly is an idiot. He might as well say "the answer to two plus two is subjective!"

Posted by Admiral Anthrax

I like Dragonforce because it's simple, fun music. Yeah, they don't have any great metal anthems or variations in the music, but their stuff serves its purpose. It's just fun, energetic metal that I can listen to while speeding down the freeway (unless the CHP is out in full force that week - I have too many speeding tickets as it is)

Posted by Klarth

I hate Dragonforce because they're bad