Brawl now has story by FF7 guy, to suck ***




Posted by Poco

[url=http://gamernode.com/news/5740-brawls-story-mode-penned-by-the-guy-behind-ffvii/index.html]well it is official, brawl is gay[/url]

[quote]Brawl's story mode penned by the guy behind FFVII
Category: Wii, Posted: 01/25/2008 at 10:17PM CST by Brendon Lindsey, Editor-in-Chief

Smash Bros. BrawlIn the latest installment of Iwata Asks with SSBB lead Masahiro Sakurai, Sakurai and the Nintendo president talk about Brawl's single story mode, The Space Emissary; more specifically, the storyline included in it.

Sakurai mentions the difficulties he first faced with the idea (there are a bunch of varying characters in the game, after all) as well as his own initial aversion to the idea of a singleplayer story mode. After realizing he wanted to use the side-scrolling aspect from the previous Smash Bros. game as a start-off point, Sakurai once again faced the challenge of figuring out a way to make the characters coexist, and to make a story make sense. Enter Kazushige Nojima, the man behind the story in games such as Final Fantasy VII and Kingdom Hearts.

"At that point, I decided to ask Kazushige Nojima-san to help us since he had composed the scenarios for titles like Final Fantasy VII," Sakurai tells Iwata. In typical Iwata fashion, he replies, "Wow, asking the person who crafted scenarios for Final Fantasy to write one for Smash Bros. is a pretty big deal."

Despite his credentials, Nojima's first draft wasn't exactly the stuff fanboy dreams are made of. "Some of the characters are on a bus on the way to the stadium. Samus is there. Donkey Kong is there and Snake is watching the bus from afar."

Eventually Nojima and Sakurai worked together to form a more agreeable story behind Space Emissary, and thus the mode was born.

If you haven't been reading Iwata Asks, I'd highly recommend you catch up on it. It's entertaining, and you never quite know when you'll learn that your sixth grade creative writing project was better than the work of the man behind Final Fantasy VII's plot.

welp brawl was great while it lasted. Now to feature 200x the zippers




Posted by Roger Smith

Haha, I like how you were looking forward to Brawl, but now that you know this your all like BAWWWWWWWW DIS GAME IS DA GHEY! :(:(:(

Grow up. Also why do you care? You have proclaimed yourself as a PC gamer only now.




Posted by Malevolence

Do you honestly think it will be bad just because you have some vendetta against the guy who helped on the story? Christ you're an idiot.




Posted by WillisGreeny

[url=http://www.vgchat.com/showpost.php?p=811024&postcount=1]Well It is official, Poco is gay.[/url]




Posted by Last Fog

looks like the troll struck a nerve




Posted by Iris

I'm sure it'll be better, mostly because there probably won't be any dialogue to be ****ed up. Oh well, it's not like story mode was what I was looking forward to most.

Though it'd be pretty cool if Peach or someone got knifed from behind.




Posted by Ant

I think you meant to say Zelda.

And it was the combined efforts of Nojima and Sakurai, not just the one guy. So it should be fine. Wasn't expecting a really deep story anyways.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

Well, they gave Bowser a gun, so whatever. Not like it can get worse.




Posted by Ant

*Better




Posted by Zeta

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v436/Kvar/brawlstory.jpg[/IMG]




Posted by Roger Smith

oooold




Posted by Poco


Quoting Roger Smith: Haha, I like how you were looking forward to Brawl, but now that you know this your all like BAWWWWWWWW DIS GAME IS DA GHEY! :(:(:(

Grow up. Also why do you care? You have proclaimed yourself as a PC gamer only now.


i wasn't looking forward to ssb at all, in fact, i think smash is the almost as overrated as final fantasy, because most of the fans are annoying as **** and try to treat it like a SUPER SERIOUS FIGHTER, which it isn't.

in fact, i think they could change it to all star fox and sonic characters and have it only be a story mode written by a 14 year old kingdom hearts fan and most of you would still say 5/5 GAME OF THE YEAR



Posted by Malevolence


Quoting Poco: i wasn't looking forward to ssb at all, in fact, i think smash is the almost as overrated as final fantasy, because most of the fans are annoying as **** and try to treat it like a SUPER SERIOUS FIGHTER, which it isn't.

in fact, i think they could change it to all star fox and sonic characters and have it only be a story mode written by a 14 year old kingdom hearts fan and most of you would still say 5/5 GAME OF THE YEAR

Super smash brothers melee was actually surprisingly competitive. And I don't think it's nearly as overrated as Halo or some other popular Xbox title that the majority of 9th-12th graders play, and talk about at school on a daily basis. Super smash is just as competitive and serious as every other fighter that makes tournament status out there.

Also, everything that has a fanbase is subject to the type of fans that feel it is truly the best thing in the world. Most of us could really care less for the story in SSBB just because the first 2 it had no story, but gave us a fair amount of enioyment. SSE will not make or break this game, but only help it in an area it has lacked for the past 10 years. I don't think Super smash comes even near the Final Fantasy fanbase, let alone Final Fantasy 7.



Posted by Roger Smith


Quoting Poco: i wasn't looking forward to ssb at all, in fact, i think smash is the almost as overrated as final fantasy, because most of the fans are annoying as **** and try to treat it like a SUPER SERIOUS FIGHTER, which it isn't.

in fact, i think they could change it to all star fox and sonic characters and have it only be a story mode written by a 14 year old kingdom hearts fan and most of you would still say 5/5 GAME OF THE YEAR


I just assumed you liked SMB since you took the time to complain about Brawl's story. Oh well.



Posted by Poco


Quoting Malevolence: Super smash brothers melee was actually surprisingly competitive. And I don't think it's nearly as overrated as Halo or some other popular Xbox title that the majority of 9th-12th graders play, and talk about at school on a daily basis. Super smash is just as competitive and serious as every other fighter that makes tournament status out there.

Also, everything that has a fanbase is subject to the type of fans that feel it is truly the best thing in the world. Most of us could really care less for the story in SSBB just because the first 2 it had no story, but gave us a fair amount of enioyment. SSE will not make or break this game, but only help it in an area it has lacked for the past 10 years. I don't think Super smash comes even near the Final Fantasy fanbase, let alone Final Fantasy 7.


Are you really that stupid? Do you honestly think Smash is competitive and serious? Go to a MvC 2, Tekken 5, Soul Calibur or any other fighter tournament. Bring that up, and prepare to get laughed out. Smash is only competitive if you're one of the "all items r off tier 7 wavedash" faggots.

Jesus, smash bros. is fun, but really, it's not the competitive game you want it to be. Thinking of it as such is like suggesting Custom Robo is on the same level as Armored Core in terms of complexity and how difficult it is to master. Smash is basically working exploits, while the other games are memorization of combos and where to use them.



Posted by Roger Smith


Quoting Poco: Are you really that stupid? Do you honestly think Smash is competitive and serious? Go to a MvC 2, Tekken 5, Soul Calibur or any other fighter tournament. Bring that up, and prepare to get laughed out. Smash is only competitive if you're one of the "all items r off tier 7 wavedash" faggots.

Jesus, smash bros. is fun, but really, it's not the competitive game you want it to be. Thinking of it as such is like suggesting Custom Robo is on the same level as Armored Core in terms of complexity and how difficult it is to master. Smash is basically working exploits, while the other games are memorization of combos and where to use them.


Funny you mention MvC 2. Smash has wavedashing and all that, and MvC2 has inescapable infinite combos.

Go figure.



Posted by Poco


Quoting Roger Smith: Funny you mention MvC 2. Smash has wavedashing and all that, and MvC2 has inescapable infinite combos.

Go figure.


After playing both, the inescapable combos of doom take time and patience to learn how to pull off. Wavedashing was just a cheap, easy to learn exploit.



Posted by Iris

Hint: this is trolling




Posted by Roger Smith

/r/ immediate evac to wacko lol




Posted by WillisGreeny

How ****ing dare ANYONE make fun of Poco. After all he's been through. He lost his Aunt. He went through a divorce. He had two ****ing kids. His husband turned out to be a user and cheater, and now he's going through a custody battle. ALL YOU PEOPLE CARE ABOUT ARE~~READERS and making MONEY off of him. HE'S A HUMAN!!!

What you people don't realise is Poco is making you guys a lot of money and all you do is write crap about him. He hasn't performed on stage for years. All you people want is MORE MORE MORE MOOOOORE.

LEAVE HIM ALOOOONE. You're lucky he even performed for you bastards.

LEAVE POCO ALOOONE. :( please.




Posted by Malevolence

I often respond to trolling just because. I get to argue, and they get what they want. It's win, win. But because it's opinion based I guess there is no point. HAVE FUN POCO.




Posted by Bebop

FF7 and Kingdom Hearts always get bummed up for having 'omg teh best stories so smart' ever. Surely this is good news?




Posted by Speedfreak

The guy's pretty much filling in the blanks that Sakurai made. He's just adding the drama. That's not what gayed up FF7, it was the plot that did it.




Posted by S


Quoting Poco: After playing both, the inescapable combos of doom take time and patience to learn how to pull off. Wavedashing was just a cheap, easy to learn exploit.


Combos don't make a fighter. I don't take Smash Bros. all that seriously, but it's a very intricate game. Just because there is no cornering and deeply tuned punishing doesn't mean it isn't an effective fighting game.

I'd say MvC2 is more of a laughable fighter just because of how unbalanced the game is. How many characters are truly effective in that game? Cable and Magneto?

SSB is a unique stylization of fighter, that's all there is to it.




Posted by Speedfreak

Wavedashing is relatively easy to learn but very difficult to make useful and pull off reliably.

It's pretty amusing that you thing memorising button combinations has more to do with real fighting than exploiting your oppenents screwups with very simple techniques.

To add to what Solrok was saying: all fighters are total bulls[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it. Get off your highhorse, accept it and stop hating on Smash.




Posted by S


Quoting Speedfreak: To add to what Solrok was saying: all fighters are total bulls[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it. Get off your highhorse, accept it and stop hating on Smash.

Guilty Gear > Your face.



Posted by Speedfreak

Bullshit considering what they're supposed to represent. No such thing as a "serious fighter".




Posted by Bebop

Fight Club?




Posted by Roger Smith

1st RULE: You do not talk about FIGHT CLUB.

2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about FIGHT CLUB.




Posted by WillisGreeny

Is mentioning the rules still talking about fight club? I always found those parts in the story hypocritical.




Posted by Bebop

It doesnt mean 'never ever say it ooo secret' it means keep the club a secret.




Posted by Poco


Quoting Speedfreak: Bullshit considering what they're supposed to represent. No such thing as a "serious fighter".


Ding ding. I knew with this thread I'd get the best of people who consider fighters a "sport" of sorts.

I think smash is fun, honestly, i just don't think it's as great a fighter as MvC2 or Guilty Gear. It's a wonderful party game to sit down and play with your friends in the Pokemon stadium level with pokeballs as the only items at a very high spawn rate. That's fun.



Posted by Malevolence


Quoting Poco: Ding ding. I knew with this thread I'd get the best of people who consider fighters a "sport" of sorts.

I think smash is fun, honestly, i just don't think it's as great a fighter as MvC2 or Guilty Gear. It's a wonderful party game to sit down and play with your friends in the Pokemon stadium level with pokeballs as the only items at a very high spawn rate. That's fun.

It is true though that what defines a good player from an average is his ability to use the "exploits". You can call them techniques because they are there to use, but they were not intentional to developers.



Posted by Poco


Quoting Malevolence: It is true though that what defines a good player from an average is his ability to use the "exploits". You can call them techniques because they are there to use, but they were not intentional to developers.


I disagree. I think knowing the exploits is good, but they aren't really techniques so much as "HEY GUYS I FOUND THIS LETS ABUSE IT TO NO END AND CALL IT SKILL". Quite frankly, I don't think it is skill or technique. If someone were to beat an excellent player without wavedashing (what is that), would you call it luck?


Solrok: I used Megaman BB Hood and Wolverine all the time in MvC2. The Cable/Magneto thing was pretty easy to beat.



Posted by Malevolence


Quoting Poco: I disagree. I think knowing the exploits is good, but they aren't really techniques so much as "HEY GUYS I FOUND THIS LETS ABUSE IT TO NO END AND CALL IT SKILL". Quite frankly, I don't think it is skill or technique. If someone were to beat an excellent player without wavedashing (what is that), would you call it luck?


Solrok: I used Megaman BB Hood and Wolverine all the time in MvC2. The Cable/Magneto thing was pretty easy to beat.

Actually I'm not really speaking of wavedashing specifically. Although useful, It isn't necessary. I was speaking more of SHFFLing.

It's really not easy to pull those off to help you in a good way. I would call it a skill in itself to learn how to pull those off so well and such. But whatever you define skill. It's subjective.



Posted by Iris

If it isn't how the game intended to be played and you're exploiting a tactic which shouldn't exist then it isn't skill. It's just degenerating the other players to also use it so they can play on an even field. You can be good at exploiting it, but you're not supposed to be since it shouldn't be there.




Posted by Malevolence


Quoting Iris: If it isn't how the game intended to be played and you're exploiting a tactic which shouldn't exist then it isn't skill. It's just degenerating the other players to also use it so they can play on an even field. You can be good at exploiting it, but you're not supposed to be since it shouldn't be there.

I'm afraid you don't understand what I mean. It takes skill to SHFFL affectively. If it did not, most people could do it affectively without practice at all. Just because it is not intended to be there does not mean it doesn't take skill to do. Skills are things that take practice and work to do. Being skilled at the game is different, which I never implied in the first place.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: . I think knowing the exploits is good, but they aren't really techniques so much as "HEY GUYS I FOUND THIS LETS ABUSE IT TO NO END AND CALL IT SKILL". Quite frankly, I don't think it is skill or technique.


That's every competitive game. Whether it's Street Fighter, Halo, Smash or Rainbow. Exploits are part of a players skill. they go hand-in-hand.

Not saying Smash is a serious fighter or any ****, just pointing that out. Most tournaments allow some exploit or another.



Posted by S


Quoting Iris: If it isn't how the game intended to be played and you're exploiting a tactic which shouldn't exist then it isn't skill. It's just degenerating the other players to also use it so they can play on an even field. You can be good at exploiting it, but you're not supposed to be since it shouldn't be there.


Mostly, I don't think game developers put that much fore-thought into it. They try but there are always things that slip by them because honestly, you can only pre-empt so much. That's why there's almost always an infinite in a fighting game; because they couldn't predict it, and it took a player to unlock a character's potential. Wave-dashing is of the same kin. Like it or not, it is part of the physics of that world which they intended to create. If they find it broken enough, they'll patch or remove it in the next game (Ala Brawl.).



Posted by Screenname


Quoted post: "Some of the characters are on a bus on the way to the stadium. Samus is there. Donkey Kong is there and Snake is watching the bus from afar."
:lol: come on



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: If it isn't how the game intended to be played and you're exploiting a tactic which shouldn't exist then it isn't skill. It's just degenerating the other players to also use it so they can play on an even field. You can be good at exploiting it, but you're not supposed to be since it shouldn't be there.


That's what every kid who can't use said exploit says. Doesn't change a thing, doesn't make the player any less skilled.



Posted by Iris

I can do most of those tricks, but that's besides the point. It's like being able to corner some one into and inescapable combo. The game physics didn't intend for it to happen, but it's possible. Still, it isn't true skill, despite how good or bad you can be at pulling it off. That's like saying using an auto-headshot cheat in Goldeneye is skill. Sure, you can do it, but using it against people without it isn't skill, it's competing unevenly.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: It's like being able to corner some one into and inescapable combo.


That's why they're typically banned in competitions. Much like how Smash has more than a few exploits that are also banned. If they're gamebreaking, stall gameplay or whatever, chances are no competition will allow them. So what's the big deal?



Posted by Malevolence


Quoting Iris: I can do most of those tricks, but that's besides the point. It's like being able to corner some one into and inescapable combo. The game physics didn't intend for it to happen, but it's possible. Still, it isn't true skill, despite how good or bad you can be at pulling it off. That's like saying using an auto-headshot cheat in Goldeneye is skill. Sure, you can do it, but using it against people without it isn't skill, it's competing unevenly.

That's a terrible analogy.

Wavedashing, SHFFLing affectively isn't easy and most people who can do it can't do it affectively enough to make the difference. Those that can are the ones who are skilled. They are there to use. It's like you're saying if someone decides to not use the smash attacks. They'll be put at a disadvantage, even though they are there to use. Anyone can put themselves in the position to learn to SHFFL and wavedash. It is their choice if they will, or will not. If they do not, then they can't complain when they face someone who does. It does not matter if the developers intended on you doing this, because they probably didn't know about it, and after the games creation cannot change it. It is not competing unevenly because the opposing player is in the position to learn that technique (And yes, it is a technique. Exploit or not, the definition holds true).

There is a difference between a cheat and using an attack. Cheats usually take no effort, and create a huge disadvantage, such as your insta headshot. Not to mention they are two completely genre's and the impact one cheat in an FPS may have will be gamebreaking.

I'm not saying using those techniques makes you SKILLED at Smash. On the competitive scene though, it does, although it does require skill to use those affectively. Those techniques add more flavor to the competitive scene. They make the games funner to watch, and the people playing those games enjoy it more because of the fast pace of the game.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Iris;811934]If it isn't how the game intended to be played and you're exploiting a tactic which shouldn't exist then it isn't skill. It's just degenerating the other players to also use it so they can play on an even field. You can be good at exploiting it, but you're not supposed to be since it shouldn't be there.

It really depends on the technique in question, this has a lot to do with this game fundamentals book I've been reading.

First off, designers don't directly design play, they indirectly design it through the rules of the game. Play that the designer never intended will arise out of pretty much any game you can design, it's almost unavoidable. More often than not it's embraced by the designer because it's a mark of a deep and complex system.

There's plenty of games where advanced techniques arise that aren't specifically stated in the rules but also don't break them either, for example bluffing in poker. Obviously bluffing isn't a cheap tactic, it's almost entirely what the game is about, especially at a competitive level.

But if the tactic is exploiting a weakness in the game design to the point where many, most or all other elements of the game become irrelevent then it's called a degenerate strategy. None of the Smash Bros techniques that I've seen would fall under that category, all the other elements of the game are still relevent and those techniques are particularly hard to pull off and make useful. I suppose if there was an advanced technique that rendered a certain specific character completely useless then it would be a degenerate strategy, but it doesn't get to that extreme level.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: this has a lot to do with this game fundamentals book I've been reading.


Sun Tzu's Art of War?


Quoted post: None of the Smash Bros techniques that I've seen would fall under that category,


Quite a few do. You can indefinitely stall gameplay with various characters, the freeze glitch with Ice Climbers, and so on. All techniques, just banned ones.



Posted by maian

...On another note, Subspace Emissary is at least ten hours long, with apparently an awesome story! Apparently it actually has a deep enough of a story to the point where you'd want to avoid spoilers.

I've heard the ending is amazing and epic beyond description.




Posted by Zeta

lol nope




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

Spoiler: [spoiler]Sonic saves the Nintendo universe.[/spoiler] How ironic.




Posted by Ant

surprised nintendo was cool with that.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

LIVE AND LEARN
HANGING ON THE EDGE TILL TOMORROW
YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH

I think the ending depends on what characters you use, actually. So my spoiler's probably variable. I based it on the SSE stream that was on last night.




Posted by Malevolence

I'm avoiding it just so I might have some oh**** moments. Continue to shade the spoilers in that fashion so I don't cry myself to sleep. ;)




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

He spoiled it for me, that son of a *****.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

HEY VAMP REMEMBER THAT TIME YOU TOLD ME PRICE DIES IN COD4

HAHAHAHA ***** PAYBACK [spoiler]again.[/spoiler]




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Hey, pal. You already got me back for that. You spoiled Eli's death for me. That was more than enough, buddy.




Posted by Malevolence


Quoting The X: HEY VAMP REMEMBER THAT TIME YOU TOLD ME PRICE DIES IN COD4

HAHAHAHA ***** PAYBACK [spoiler]again.[/spoiler]

I'M TORRENTING COD4 RIGHT NOW

FFUUUUUUUCCCCCCKKKKKKK



Posted by Roger Smith


Quoting The X: LIVE AND LEARN
HANGING ON THE EDGE TILL TOMORROW
YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH



Hangin' on the edge of tomorrow* newfag.



Posted by Screenname

Melee's adventure mode had a great story aswell




Posted by Malevolence


Quoting Screenname: Melee's adventure mode had a great story aswell

I SENSE SARCASM.