This guy reckons silent protagonists suck.
[QUOTE][CENTER]Kill the Silent Protagonist![/CENTER]
I am serious when I say that this is the worst idea that infects video games right now. It
Depends on the game. The silent protagonist angle works in games like Half-Life and Call of Duty because you're in the first person, but in third person, it's usually pretty dumb. Except in Zelda - but that's because I've spent about 10 years of my life building up my own image of Link.
I honestly don't care either way, it just doesn't break the immersion for me. The ONLY time it really does is in Half-Life where they just tried to hard to build up your relationship with Alex and you never say one word or really even show any emotion, yet she still reacts like you do. That's a tad odd.
Otherwise, as X said, often it makes sense. I don't want my guy in CoD mouthing off every ten seconds. It's more immersing in that case.
I don't like silent protagonists. I think kind of like that guy. I mean, there's already a character there, you just find out stuff about him eventually. He's had a voice long before you ever showed up. *shrug*
Either one is fine with me. If the game designers/writers want to tell a specific story in a totally defined way, then the hero can talk. It better be a damn good story, though. If they want to let the player's imagination run wild and can provide outlets for that through devices other than the hero's dialog, then let him be silent.
The article's author says "Imagine a movie where..." I'm not watching a movie. I'm playing a game. When you start writing award-winning games, then whine all you like about what the other immensely successful guys are doing.
Good example of when a character should be silent and when not: Oblivion and Mass Effect. If either was in the other game it's completely ruin it.
It really depends on the game. I don't generally like a silent protagonist in RPGs, but in the case of Zelda, Baldur's Gate or CoD I prefer they have no voice.
So Chrono Trigger, Mario RPG, and Suikoden 2 really sucked... Yeah, not true.
Before anyone flips out I think it's down to the game too. Terranigma's protagonist isn't silent, but pretty much everything he comes out with is appropriate for the situation. Far Cry, on the other hand, is an awful example. Every single time that voice actor opened his mouth he sounded like a complete tool.
didn't read article but I know that silent Protagonists are awesome. I mean where would we be without Link? also Chrono Trigger & cross,Pokemon,and other notable games, are awesome too.
Golden Sun, Zelda, Chrono. Like everyone else, it depends on the game, but it generally doesn't annoy me to have a silent protagonist as long as they're able to develop in other ways. As long as you let a character develop, they no longer have simple universal descriptions like "Hero of Time" or "brave warrior from blahblahblah," silent or not.
[COLOR=Navy]Ha ha, Golden Sun. I laughed a little when the role of protagonist was reversed and Isaac started talking while Felix became silent.[/COLOR]
[quote=Mr. Awesome;784253][COLOR=Navy]Ha ha, Golden Sun. I laughed a little when the role of protagonist was reversed and Isaac started talking while Felix became silent.[/COLOR]
That's probably my biggest arguement for silent protagonists. Seeing Isaac speak when he was supposed to represent me sucked balls.
I think I smashed the reputation button about twenty times, but it won't let me. Great post Linko. I'm in complete agreement.
most of the time i dont really notice it, the only time that i actually rember that i wasnt happy was in saints row, he just nods or talks whattwice? then theres also pokemon with the
person one: where are you from?
me:................
person one: oo so your from little root and your goin to start an adventure to capture all the pokemon an beat the elete four to be the best trainer, ever.
[quote=Linko_16;784544][COLOR=indigo]A game can be great with or without a silent protagonist, but they both have to be done right. Think of how ridiculously corny a lot of the dialog was in Metroid Prime 3... what if they'd done that to Samus? She's a perfect example of a character you imprint your own ideas on, since you spend 99% of Metroid games without even a face to draw character from. If you don't need it for the game, and you can't depend on the developers not to **** it up, isn't silence a better alternative? On the other hand, some more plot-intensive games depend on the protagonist's voice a lot... would Tales of the Abyss make any sense without Luke learning about the outside world and changing from a selfish person to a humble hero? Would Snake be as dear to us if it wasn't for his sarcastically grim wisecracks? Voices can make a game.[/COLOR]
Samus is an interesting example because she's not actually 100% silent. At the beginning of Super Metroid she narrates, all through Metroid Fusion she not only narrates but reveals her past. Yet when it counts she's silent and you can resume your position behind the visor.
Oh, I guess I forgot about Fusion and the beginning of Super Metroid. But that's an example of how giving a character a voice, even one who's been voiceless for so long, can feel so natural that you barely notice. And that thing with Adam and the computer program couldn't've been done otherwise.
It really depends on the game. I mean, Harvest Moon games pretty much have silent characters. But when they're meeting the neighbors, they tell them their story and move their hands around, recounting everything for the person...and it's just stupid. They don't actually say anything, they just move their hands and it's understood that they're talking.
But it's perfect for games like Halo and such.
As for Link..I sort of got frustrated with Twilight Princess when I played it. I wanted him to talk xD And each Link is a new Link anyway. Can't they have at least one Link that talks? :/
I think the best way to get over this problem would actually make it seem like the person is the hero. Which can either be done with virtual reality or a lot of options that twist and turn the story the way the person wants it. Sort of like Fable, I suppose, or Jade Empire.
But that's why we have a variety of games. Don't like silent types? Go play a Tales of game or another game where the person talks. Or start talking for Link while you play the game lol
Oh yeah, he does. Been awhile since I played. Semi-silent I guess..but whose he gonna speak to on the battlefield anyway? "Oh hello alien, how are you today? Your siege going well?"
Wouldn't it be interesting for them to actually address the mute thing in the game? And have it be a problem for the hero or something like that. Or maybe my imagination is going too far... :/
But the way done in MM sounds just as good. Sort of just skips over the silent part and you don't really notice it.
[COLOR=Navy]Remember in Super Mario RPG when Mario would preform rediculously complex pantomimes to explain situations because he wasn't allowed to speak? That was awesome.[/COLOR]
Ha, I'd really like to see more pantomiming like in SMRPG. Mario reenacting his first encounter with Exor was pretty funny.
Lol, that stuff was amazing.
Quoting Raeth: Wouldn't it be interesting for them to actually address the mute thing in the game? And have it be a problem for the hero or something like that. Or maybe my imagination is going too far... :/
In the Jak and Daxter series, Jak starts out silent but is given a voice in Jak II. Somewhere along the line they're trying to talk to someone, and Daxter makes the joke "Maybe he's a mute. You know, like you used to be." That was somewhat lul-worthy.
You know, Linko, I stopped playing Metroid games not only because I felt it was the same game, but I felt no character progression. I didn't care if I died a million times because I was no one. I got bored. Just saying. :/
Doesn't really count; it's a remake.
And lol at Fate.
Also lol at fate. Also that comment about how games should comment on the silent protagonist thing even though many do. And Master Chief is only silent most of the time because Halo dialogue is pretty terrible and they'd most likely make him say something horribly goofy if he talked too much.
Am I the only one who actually played Halo? The Chief talks in like every cutscene.
It doesn't matter who the character is I'm playing, if I die I'm ****ed, especially if I had just gotten a rare drop from a monster. Dieing => Redue => Lost-time. It's annoying.
From what I recall of that video he has a valid point, I just honesty didn't care. I was more interested in the story and progression than having to be careful and replaying a large chunk of time. I love difficult games, I just don't think BioShock needed to be difficult.
Aaaaaaaaand System Shock 2 wasn't that hard.
[COLOR=Navy]The development videos I saw on Bioshock made it sound like you were going to have to be scraping for health and ammo the whole game and more or less finding ways to complete objectives other than forcing your way through a crowd of enemies. Recently I watched a friend play the game and it seemed waaaaay too easy. I had to assume that he was playing on a low difficulty level or something. :/ Anyways, off topic.
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yeah, and it still turned out to be an awesome game, surprisingly. They talked the game up a lot awhile before it came out, but as time went on they talked less and less about the RPG aspect and various other things like you mentioned. So it didn't really even matter by the time it came out.
Bioshock was great. Even though there was an easy way to recover from death, I didn't run out of health that often anyway.
[quote=Fate][COLOR=skyblue]I didn't care if I died a million times because I was no one. I got bored. Just saying.[/COLOR]
oh wow
[quote=Linko_16;784883][COLOR=indigo]That is by far the goofiest reason to stop playing a game series that I have ever heard.[/COLOR]
I don't want to start some, you know, shit. But I've been doing a little research and it does seem like women look for much different things in games than men, even when we're both playing the same game. If characters are important to Fate then not liking Metroid for that reason is just as sane as me not liking Silent Hill for it's lack of gameplay. Games have been designed for men for so long that we've just assumed what makes a good game is totally universal.
...
You win this round, estrogen.
Ha! This morning someone sent an e-mail linking to that specific blog post as an example of their design staff having a little too much time on their hands.
Anyway...
It depends on the game, like it has been said before, but it's never a complete solution. There have been numerous times in JRPGs where my character not saying anything under a certain scenario is against who I am, and it's just as bad (and sometimes worse) as the character saying something I wouldn't say. On the other hand, even with the kings of character interaction and development (KOTOR, Jade Empire and Mass Effect), there are those very rare moments where none of the conversation options offer me the choice I would've picked.
One main thing to consider, however, is how relevant should the relationship between player-and-character be in a particular game, and what the nature of that relationship is. This will determine whether the silent character is necessary or not, or if it even makes a difference. For example, in Mass Effect it is extremely crucial that the player relates as much as possible to the character. It demands the main character has dialog. They are supposed to be the drivers of the story, and that is arguably the main draw of the game. BioWare allows you to create, in great detail, the facial features of the character to allow for an accurate self-portrait. It allows you to change your default name, and gives you options on what personal and career history you have, respectively, prior to the start of the game. Once that's done, in-game conversations continually offer choices that allow the player to realize that "I AM that guy on the screen," more than any other game. I guess that's why I prefer that style of RPG to any other. It truly defines the "role playing" aspect of the genre better than anything else out there. Stuff happens, you choose how to deal with it, and your decision has far-reaching consequences on both character (yours and NPCs) and story development.
Games like ME allow for a deep level of immersion more than any other game with a silent character can.
[COLOR=Navy]Makes me think of Morrowind. While the character you're playing never has any REAL dialog, you're constantly having to select a response to another character's dialog (although sometimes you only get one choice). I enjoyed how they managed to give the character dialog without giving him/her "dialog." The game wouldn't have been the same if you couldn't have conversed with the game's NPCs in the same way (see: Oblivion).[/COLOR]
Oddly Im fine with my character not being silent provided there speech is written. Voice acting, especially if its bad, can bring a games fun right down.
I would prefer a mime any day though. I'd say the pros are better.
yeah for the halo dialoge its horrible he only says a few words which does nothing for the story, for him if he nodded it would be so much better for the story.
I do wish also that link would talk in the near future but if they give him a voice the chances are some ppl will not like that name so if they keep him silent then ppl will not so unless they can nail the voice i do not see them adding vocals. Some games need vocals like deep in thought RPG's like the tales series those are some of the most riveting series i love how the characters get involved and how there are very diverse its one of the best character profiles.
I know the point of a video game is the gameplay, but I sometimes wonder how there can be so many famous video games with such bad dialog. Metroid Prime 3 comes to mind; for that big a name, they couldn't find any worthwhile writers? All the characters sound like they were plucked straight out of some bad fanfic.
Maybe that'll be my life's calling. I'll write for video games. Finally, my career search is over.
Linko & Willis United: Helping your games not sound like **** since '07.
How about since 09', when I'll actually be fluent in Japanese, and we both have money.
Yeah, but if we start with when we first thought of it, it sounds like we've been in business longer.
I didn't have a problem with the dialog on MP3. Cite some examples of bad dialog please.
Rundas supposedly being this smooth bad boy, but all his dialog is flat and boring, which just made the "smooth bad-boy" voice acting painful to listen to. Gandrayda was especially bad, putting on a failure of an "Ooo, I'm such a sassy *****" archetype.
Ghor was okay, though. And despite how goofy he looked, I guess that commander guy was fine.
If all Rundas' dialog is flat and boring then how do you know he's supposed to be a smooth bad boy?
Gandrayda definately seemed like a sassy jealous b[COLOR=lightgreen]i[/COLOR]tch, she was like a p[COLOR=lightgreen]i[/COLOR]ss-take of all other female video game heroes, the similarity in manner and appearence to Halo's Cortana couldn't have been a coincidence. I thought it was great because you got to kill her.:)