Achievements suck, the sequel.




Posted by Speedfreak

AHA! I knew I wasn't the only one!


Quoted post: Background story: I have two 360s. One I paid for, [URL="http://kotaku.com/gaming/not-a-piano/my-new-elite-360-295407.php"]one is a loaner from MS[/URL]. Thanks to the awful phone connection setup at my house, only one console is connected to the internets. That console is in my office, and only really gets use as an XBLA/multiplayer rig. The Elite in my living room, that's hooked up to my TV, and that's where I do most of my 360 gaming. So. What's happened is my Elite has racked up a ton of achievements and points. My other 360, the one that's online, hasn't. With 5 minutes spare today waiting for my PC to reboot, I figured I'd switch the HDDs over, update my gamercard with all the stuff I'd earned, won, etc over the past few months. That was a mistake. See, in my naivety, I presumed that once online, my Gamercard would update itself with all the new info. Instead, all it did was erase the achievements and 6000 or so gamerpoints on my Elite HDD, dragging it back to the bare-bones level of the office 360. For a second, I thought I should be upset. Angry, even. After all, hadn't I worked really hard to get those points? Busted my arse grinding my way through some pointless stand-offs in Crackdown? Course I had. And now my payoff was gone!
But I didn't get angry. Or upset. Instead, common sense kicked in, and I feel liberated. Jesus, since when was it fun to force yourself to play through parts of a game just to earn yourself an arbitrary point score? Last I remember it was around 1987. We moved on from there for a reason. Because it's stupid. I didn't buy a 360 to get in a ****ing contest with my friends about who wasted the most time on Gears, I bought it to play games.
I wasn't addicted to racking up points: it was, as the title suggests, more a complex than an addiction. But looking back on it now, on all the time I wasted looking for green orbs, looking for skulls, unlocking cars in PGR I was never even going to drive...I feel like an ***. That was work, not fun, and with those "achievements" now gone I feel like a free man.



http://kotaku.com/gaming/rant/im-free-of-my-achievement-complex-317535.php



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Good for him?




Posted by Fate

you know you can make phone calls to get all your stuff on the new xbox without jumping through hoops right

right

That guy is a fag for not appreciating what the hell Achievements really mean. It's not even about the numbers, for ****'s sake.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

Nobody's making you get achievements.




Posted by Fate

Yeah, some people actually have control of themselves when they play games.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Also he complained about getting skulls. idk, I got those with multiple groups of friends and it was pretty fun...




Posted by Last Fog

Kudos to this man for being liberated! :rolleyes:

The way I see it, if achievements are so meaningless, then so is a high score in any game in history. It's the same concept as a leaderboard. Sure it's work, but if you're a competitive player, thats what it's all about. The work you put into a game to reap the rewards. You may get frustrated and mad in the process of playing a game, but in the end the sense of accomplishment is worth it.

And if you're not competetive? Don't play for achievements. It's really that simple.




Posted by Fate


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Also he complained about getting skulls. idk, I got those with multiple groups of friends and it was pretty fun...


Aaaaaaaaaaaaand it makes you look like Shredder/Hayabusa. :cool:



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Which would've been cool if it didn't look so lame/so overly used. They've managed to ruin something Ryu somehow...




Posted by Fate

wtf

I love being Shredder.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

I really don't see it as an overused armor type. If anything, it's pretty uncommon now. Though I read a hilarious post on the Bungie forums about a guy who didn't have the patience to get the IWHBYD skull, and took out his rage by teabagging and teamkilling Hayabusa wearers. He was being totally serious, and thought he was justified in doing so.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, I don't see it as often, still though it just looks weird. As awesome as Ryu looks, it doesn't look half as good on a spartan. Plus, I like the Scout helmet.




Posted by Last Fog

Really the only good helmets are the Mark V and Mark VI. Everything else looks just plain ugly. The Hayabusa armor is ok though.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

MARATHON HELMET **** YEAH

I never did manage to get it. :(




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I used that one for along time. Put the scout chest on and you look like an astronaut. Awesome.




Posted by Prince Shondronai

Wait, those little symbols that pop up and tell you you've won points when you're playing a 360 game mean something to some people?




Posted by Speedfreak

Speaking of crappy achievement concepts, anyone wanna trade Metroid Prime 3 vouchers with me so I can see my ***damn concept art?




Posted by Fate

That if people reallyreallyreally wanted to see they'd find it on the internet or play games that offer concept art?

You didn't play Condemned, did you?




Posted by MottaTheHutt

The Hayabusa helmet looks like a transformer.




Posted by Fate

Shredder. :3




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

It's like part Shredder, part Optimus and part Ryu.




Posted by MottaTheHutt

All good things that don't seem to blend together very well...




Posted by Last Fog

Hey guys, lets totally derail this thread and just talk about Halo 3 armor.

So what's everyone's favorite chest plate? I prefer what I think is called the E.V.A.




Posted by MottaTheHutt

I'm using the Katana armor right now. Other than that I'm all-out Hayabusa.




Posted by Last Fog

I wore the Katana for awhile.. but it's getting pretty common now, and I just don't like the stupid collar it comes with.




Posted by MottaTheHutt

Yeah, the fact that you can't change its colors was a poor decision on Bungie's part...




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

The Katana looks like **** anyways. Incredibly low res. Though I like the Hayabusa chest piece only because it doesn't look like **** with the Scout helmet.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Fate;771180][COLOR=skyblue]That if people reallyreallyreally wanted to see they'd find it on the internet or play games that offer concept art?

You didn't play Condemned, did you?[/COLOR]


I'm not sure what you just said, but if you can find a site with all the Prime 3 art then please link me!

I didn't play condemned because 1) I don't have a 360, and 2) it's made by Sega.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

[quote=Speedfreak;771509]1) I don't have a 360

[quote=Speedfreak]Achievements suckI see a pattern emerging.

Sega =/= Sonic Team, by the way. Sega have made some pretty good games recently.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Haha, oh wow. Reread that whole post dude.




Posted by MottaTheHutt

Shut up. :(




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=The X;771520]I see a pattern emerging.

Sega =/= Sonic Team, by the way. Sega have made some pretty good games recently.

...yes, you've guessed it exactly. I pretend to hate achievements because I'm so gosh darned JEALOUS OF ALL YOU PEOPLE WITH 360s.

Or because shootan garms aren't really my cup of tea.

By the time my game's out I'll be able to get a Falcon unit easily.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

[quote=Speedfreak;771607]...yes, you've guessed it exactly. I pretend to hate achievements because I'm so gosh darned JEALOUS OF ALL YOU PEOPLE WITH 360s.
... Or you just don't have any experience with the achievements system. It would be equally idiotic of me to wade into the Playstation forum and cry 'HOME SUCKS, AND THIS ANECDOTE AGREES WITH ME'.




Posted by Speedfreak

I figure if I can see through the truly evil reward systems of WoW to realise I'm basically doing the same thing over and over for no reason then achievements have no chance. I guess I should experience them before I make any final, ultimate judgement, and I will have to eventually because I can't really miss having a 360 this gen. It's not like I'm running Kotaku and posting this crap up all the time anyway.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Just don't worry about the achievements that you have to grind to get. Focus on those that are fun and those you can get with friends. That's what makes them great, not the boring, difficult ones.




Posted by Fate


Quoting Speedfreak: I'm not sure what you just said, but if you can find a site with all the Prime 3 art then please link me!

I didn't play condemned because 1) I don't have a 360, and 2) it's made by Sega.


Here's one. I didn't even look that hard. I'm sure if I did some real digging I could find some better/more stuff. Torrents are good for it.

http://i.neoseeker.com/v_concept_art.php?platform=Wii&filename=metroid_prime_3&show=2


And Condemned offered concept art with Achievements. THE MORE YOU KNOW!




Posted by Speedfreak

That's not even concept art, those are just final renders. Believe me, I've tried to find all of it for ages but it just doesn't exist. I could use a torrent, but I've got someone to trade these poxy tokens with so I might as well.




Posted by Big Boss

I saw a guy with a costume that had glowing bits all over the place. If the impossible happened and I actually wanted to play through Campaign, that's the one I'd get.

And I agree about the Hayabusa helmet. It's just not as cool as it was on paper, although the sword would be nice to have.



Quoting Speedfreak: 2) it's made by Sega.


Actually, it's made by Monolith (F.E.A.R.), and published by Sega.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: That's not even concept art, those are just final renders. Believe me, I've tried to find all of it for ages but it just doesn't exist. I could use a torrent, but I've got someone to trade these poxy tokens with so I might as well.


They're all out there. About a week after Prime 3 came out the art was floating around 4chan...



Posted by XxLionheartXx

i would probably rather have achievements than nothing at all




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Big Boss;771812][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=yellowgreen]Actually, it's made by Monolith (F.E.A.R.), and published by Sega.[/COLOR][/FONT]

Oh wow, that makes me want it so much more.




Posted by Ant

go to bed, speedfreak.




Posted by Speedfreak

...it's 5 PM.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Oh wow, that makes me want it so much more.


Yeah, not like they could use their experience on FEAR to make a good horror game or anything, right?



Posted by Speedfreak

I was never interested in F.E.A.R and I'm not particularly interested in some early 360 game (especially since I don't have the console) when there's plenty of other horror games around.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

You don't have to be interested in FEAR to understand that they made some of the best AI and created an awesome atmosphere. That easily translates into a game like Condemned. It may not have been fantastic, but its a solid game and Condemned 2 is looking better and better.




Posted by Fate

I actually really liked Condemned. I didn't even play it until a couple of months ago and I still liked the whole atmosphere thing. F.E.A.R. was also pretty cool.

You seem to be looking for a way out of this conversation, Speedy. How unbecoming of you.




Posted by Speedfreak

F.E.A.R. was the 109th "best shooting game ever" that I wasn't interested in, Condemned was early adopter fodder for a system I don't even own. I don't what opinion of it I'm supposed to have. The only reason you even mentioned it was for having concept art and achievements which is sort of interesting I guess.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Condemned was an early game but that doesn't mean it was bad. It's still a pretty good game two years in. And FEAR was only "the best shooter ever" because it had awesome AI. And considering a large portion of Condemned is beating up AI enemies with a melee system... you want a developer that knows how to do AI.




Posted by Big Boss


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Condemned was an early game but that doesn't mean it was bad. It's still a pretty good game two years in.


True. In fact, while I've owned the Xbox 360 since its November 22nd, 2005 launch, I played Condemned for the first time just two months ago and found it both polished and entertaining.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Indeed. There's still some faults to it that are noticeable right off the bat, but it's solid and genuinely creepy, especially further on.




Posted by Last Fog

It's a shame Condemned never got any recognition. I played through the whole game with my friend about a month back and enjoyed it. The combat system is so simple yet works so well and feels solid. But it's a game you only play once. I borrowed it to play on my account but never touched it.




Posted by Prince Shondronai

I think Condemned 2 is being planned, regardless of the success of the original. I forget if it was in EGM or what...




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, Bloodshot and it looks pretty badass actually. They fleshed out the melee system and CSI stuff quite a bit, added a large variety of environmental finishers, added new modes and multiplayer, etc etc. Should be good.

Oh, and on the topic of Achievements, CoD4 actually has some really good ones. Besides the "finish this levels" there's also a bunch with little tasks you might not even notice the first or second time through like saving a farmer from execution and whatnot. No grinding achievements either. Games like this make Achievements have some value.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro V. Empire;772886]Condemned was an early game but that doesn't mean it was bad. It's still a pretty good game two years in. And FEAR was only "the best shooter ever" because it had awesome AI. And considering a large portion of Condemned is beating up AI enemies with a melee system... you want a developer that knows how to do AI.

Every new shooting game has "awesome AI".




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

Yeah, you should probably play the game before you start forming opinions, Speed.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Every new shooting game has "awesome AI".


Except 8 out of 10 don't. The developers may say so but that doesn't make it true. FEAR actually does.



Posted by Speedfreak

I disagree, usually developers do actually make good on their improved A.I. and graphics. But the FPS genre is tired as hell, I try to avoid the vast majority of them because otherwise I'll stop seeing any difference between any of them, gimmicks aside.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Disagreed. I play pretty much every FPS that comes out and most games have decent AI at best. Getting behind cover doesn't make the AI intelligent...




Posted by Speedfreak

I think that's a discussion well beyond the scope of this forum.

So how similar are the achievments on the 360 Orange Box to the PC version? Are they a good example of achievements in other games?

'Cause so far they're not as irritating as I imagined, but they're a lot sillier. Getting awarded for stuff that no gamer could possibly avoid doing is hilarious.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

[quote=Speedfreak;775545]'Cause so far they're not as irritating as I imagined, but they're a lot sillier. Getting awarded for stuff that no gamer could possibly avoid doing is hilarious.
The 360's are better, speaking as someone with a 360 and having played PC Orange Box. XBox's has a global points system, and people can compare their achievements side-by-side for every game they've ever played.

I still can't comprehend how you'd find a purely optional system irritating.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I think that's a discussion well beyond the scope of this forum.


Not really. Most AI sucks. Even CoD4's AI sucks. Most of the cool **** they do is completely scripted and their lack of intelligence is made up for in sheer numbers. In FEAR the group of enemy soldiers was fairly small so they needed a good AI system. The same is applied in Condemned where it's frequently 1v1 and rarely anything more than a 1v2.



Quoted post: Are they a good example of achievements in other games?


Partially. They're a tad more off the wall, but the concept is the same. Basically some are alloted to completing levels and the game, more to multiplayer and getting X amount of kills and the rest are basically things you'd never really think of doing on your own. Same concept, just in certain cases with the Orange Box, taken to an extreme.



Posted by Speedfreak

I think the discussion of what makes AI "intelligent" is well beyond this forum. Most AI does suck, but that doesn't mean developers don't make good on their promises of improved AI either. It's like saying physics haven't ever gotten better because Havok physics are still laughably shit.




Posted by BLUNTMASTER X

[quote=Speedfreak;775954]Havok physics are still laughably s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it.
I dunno man. You played the steel bridge part of Episode Two, right? Watching the way all the girders acted independently of each other and stretched under the strain was pretty impressive.




Posted by Speedfreak

Impressive because it hasn't been done before, but I see flaws in Havok physics constantly. Just with the small things like when you push a crate along the floor and it judders and the sound effects screw up. No objects ever seem to land right either.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, physics still have a bunch of problems. You'll constantly see **** like stretching, twitching and random bouncing and the like. Really ruins the effect.



Quoted post: I think the discussion of what makes AI "intelligent" is well beyond this forum. Most AI does suck, but that doesn't mean developers don't make good on their promises of improved AI either.


Improved over past efforts maybe, but that doesn't make it any good. Maybe "what makes AI intelligent" is beyond this forum, but not what IS intelligent AI.