Staph Infections
Posted by Shin-Rahttp://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/us/17school-cnd.html
[quote]If the mortality estimates are correct, the number of deaths associated with the MRSA germ would exceed those attributed to HIV-AIDS, Parkinson’s disease, emphysema or homicide each year
Thoughts? This is one hell of a crazy strain. It'd be even more frightening if it was a very opportunistic bacteria which lived in your natural flora, infecting the first untreated wound you got; like a more deadly version of past strains. I don't believe the new strain does this, as it kills so quickly and is transferable via skin-to-skin contact.
NES Queen, enlighten us on the details. I have limited microbiology knowledge, though a certain interest in it.
Posted by Vampiro V. EmpireEvery so often we hear about this incredibly deadly disease or infection that creates WORLDWIDE FEAR AND TERROR but after a couple weeks or months no one cares. Flesh easting disease, avian flu, sars, etc etc.
Posted by SWest Nile?! Oh ***, like five people have died of that...
in the past twenty-five years.
Posted by Shin-RaI'm sure this is oversensationalized, like most everything on the news, but this is actually cause for a lot of concern. Most diseases mentioned thus far weren't that communicable, but this one really is. While it's currently more reserved for gym locker rooms, I can see this one becoming quite the problem very rapidly. It's especially troubling for me because of the amount of patient care I have to give out during the week from hospitals.
Oh, and most importantly from a media standpoint, it's spreading in all parts of North America which is a far stretch from avian flu (which wasn't even transferable from one person to another), SARS (which kept itself in China for the most part), and West Nile (which kept itself to the coastal areas of the US, my area being one of the highest).
Posted by BLUNTMASTER XMRSA was a big scare a year or two ago in Britain.
... Now, nobody gives a ****.
Posted by Shin-RaHaha damn. That just goes to show how quickly people stop caring and how freaked out medical workers get over this stuff (myself as the example).
Is it even mentioned in British news anymore? Usually when a disease becomes larger in another country, the previous country will bring it back up again.
Posted by Kendra, Warrior BabeYeah? These staph infections suck. My doctor thinks I have it... Of course, I probably do, considering I went to visit a lady a while back who had it, and of course I had an open cut on my arm. Real intelligent, I know. :(
Posted by WillisGreenyThis was in the local news around 5 years ago for Iowa, and it gets rebroadcasted every summer. The threat of West Nile just isn't news anymore. People are more concerned about being killed by a terrorist than a mosquito.
Posted by junior seniorweird, this happened monday in my area
Posted by BLUNTMASTER X[quote=Shin-Ra;763443]Is it even mentioned in British news anymore? Usually when a disease becomes larger in another country, the previous country will bring it back up again.
Occasionally, but it's never headline news. Nothing to worry about, srsly.
Posted by Vampiro V. EmpireOh, and I recall a super strain of the flu virus that was supposed to completely destroy us one winter. I think three people died and that was about it.
Though, personally, I prefer computer virus scares. So much ****ing business.
Posted by Skitzo ControlBritney Spears Comeback news is scarier than anything the NY Times could ever print.:(
Posted by SI work for a news paper, and we use West Nile stuff as filler when we don't have any stories. Hooah.
Posted by mitchrlambWe've been fighting MRSA for years now, this really isn't anything new.
Now when they become resistant to vancomycin, we're in trouble.
Posted by NES QueenWell first off, we don't hear about West Nile too much these days because it's a seasonal risk. Seeing as how we're in the wrong season currently, the risk level is low, hence no need for concern.
Staph aureus in and of itself is nothing to worry over. It's part of the normal flora on your skin, meaning its supposed to be there and we're all covered in it. Only when it finds its way into a part of the body it doesn't belong does it cause you problems, or if your personal hygeine is sub par and you let it run rampant. It's the resistant strains you need to worry about, and we have no one to blame but ourselves for their existance.
When I was a kid doctors used to prescribe antibiotics for you every time you had the sniffles. Now we're a bit better about it, but there's still lots of people demanding antibiotics when they don't need them (viral infections) and stupid doctors prescribing broad range penicillin based drugs without even knowing what bug they're trying to treat. Plus the amount of vaccinations we're giving to kids these days is absurd. HBV for non-health care workers, meningitis vaccine, chicken pox vaccine, HPV vaccine being marketed as a way to prevent cervical cancer (that one realllly ****es me off - don't act like a whore and catch genital warts and you won't be at an increased risk for cervical cancer, 'nuff said)... its rediculous. It's giving people a false sense of safety, almost like putting us all into little bubbles to avoid all sorts of germs and cooties.
No sir, I don't like it.
Posted by WillisGreenyPeople should think about their diet first before getting a flu shot. Heart disease is outrageously high, yet people worry about catching the flu. Maybe if obesity went down, our bodies immune system would be more effective in fighting these "plague" like diseases on their own.
Posted by Shin-RaPeople caring about their long term healthcare? Are you fucking mad? Why take care of something you're going to feel in the unforseeable future? I mean, after all, you're just going to die anyway. People are silly.
And your reasoning isn't exactly spot on. You can't compare flu vaccines to cholesterol intake and increased activity, as they're two entirely different entities falling under one umbrella that's entirely unrelated; however, if you're comparing people's need to gratify the immediate and totally not caring about more serious (and avoidable) health risks in the future, then I agree with you.
Posted by mitchrlamb
Quoting NES Queen:
When I was a kid doctors used to prescribe antibiotics for you every time you had the sniffles. Now we're a bit better about it, but there's still lots of people demanding antibiotics when they don't need them (viral infections) and stupid doctors prescribing broad range penicillin based drugs without even knowing what bug they're trying to treat. Plus the amount of vaccinations we're giving to kids these days is absurd. HBV for non-health care workers, meningitis vaccine, chicken pox vaccine, HPV vaccine being marketed as a way to prevent cervical cancer (that one realllly ****es me off - don't act like a whore and catch genital warts and you won't be at an increased risk for cervical cancer, 'nuff said)... its rediculous. It's giving people a false sense of safety, almost like putting us all into little bubbles to avoid all sorts of germs and cooties.
No sir, I don't like it.
Can you explain why you don't like vaccinations again? I mean, I get the HPV thing. Sure, don't be a whore. But the bottom line is, there are whores and even then the prevalence of HPV is so high it's retarded. And on top of all that, we haven't had to resistant mutation problems as with antibiotics (at least no where near the level). Vaccination was a HUGE step in health care.
Kinda derailing the thread.
Posted by Vampiro V. Empirehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccines#Vaccine_controversies
Posted by NES Queen
Quoting mitchrlamb: Can you explain why you don't like vaccinations again? I mean, I get the HPV thing. Sure, don't be a whore. But the bottom line is, there are whores and even then the prevalence of HPV is so high it's retarded. And on top of all that, we haven't had to resistant mutation problems as with antibiotics (at least no where near the level). Vaccination was a HUGE step in health care.
Kinda derailing the thread.
*Warning: Large amounts of science content below - commence tl:dr commentary*
Bacteria and viruses are completely different microorganisms. Antibiotics only work against bacteria, not viruses. So excessive use of antibiotics won't breed a new army of super viruses - only super bacteria. Antibiotics work by physically killing the bacterium, often by destroying the cell membrane. Viruses are acellular, so there's no cell membrane present to destroy.
The way vaccines work is by tricking your immune system into thinking you've become infected with the target virus. This is usually done by exposing a person to a weakened form of the virus. Think of it like your in a sword fight, but your opponent is using a homemade sword cut out of cardboard and yours is sharpened steel. The odds are highly in your favor to win the battle (or as high as we can make them). So your immune system thinks its fighting the real deal and starts to manufacture antibodies and organize its immune response. It's essentially getting all the tools it needs ready and doing a practice run. If/when you become exposed to the real deal, your body is theoretically prepared to fight off the invader due to its practice run and already established antibodies. You don't have to wait for them to be generated, messenger cells just need to call up the library and request the ones needed to be sent on down. No (or less of a) delay in responding to the invader means it can be managed and eliminated faster/better than if you had to wait a few hours/days to even start fighting back.
The loophole to all of that is that it still requires our own immune systems to actually and physically fight off the invading virus. Assuming first and foremost that we even responded appropriately and performed well during our trial run and have already made the required antibodies. If a person doesn't have the desired immune response from the vaccination, they're as much protected as someone who didn't get any at all. Or, depending on what happens to your health/body in the interrim between when your vaccinated and when your exposed, the body may no longer be capable of retaliating in such an efficient manner when it needs to. Antibodies fall out of circulation after a while when not needed. Once produced we remember how to make them and can do so much faster than if we never made them at all, but just because you had immunity to measles as a baby doesn't mean you'll still have as good an immunity to it 30 years later. Myself being the perfect example, I'm no longer immune to measles. My titre is below the acceptable level to be considered "immune" and my body is no longer reacting to the vaccine and capable of producing the needed antibodies. So if I ever bump into someone with measles, I'm ****ed. Plus the vaccine is only good against that particular strain of virus. Most viruses don't mutate that rapidly so your one vaccine is *usually* good for life. But HIV and influenza change too quickly for any vaccine to be truly effective. The flu shot is the biggest scam ever invented. That only protects you against what some bigshot somewhere feels is the most likely strain to be circulating this year. So even if you have a 75% chance of catching influenza strain H1N1 and get vaccinated against that, there's still a 25% chance you'll catch strain H3N2 instead and still get sick.
So my beef with vaccinations is that they don't always work, they can have serious side effects in certain groups of people, due to the way they're manufactured can generate a severe allergic reaction in some people, and they give the less informed people out there a false sense of safety and security by thinking they're protected when they may not be. Unless you happen to work in a hospital or health care setting, how many of you have actually even had your antibody levels checked to see if your vaccinations worked and that you're truly immune?
Posted by ShadeA lot of guys at our rival school got it right before our game against them. Hmmmm...
We still lost. :(
Posted by WillisGreeny
Quoting Shin-Ra:
And your reasoning isn't exactly spot on. You can't compare flu vaccines to cholesterol intake and increased activity, as they're two entirely different entities falling under one umbrella that's entirely unrelated; however, if you're comparing people's need to gratify the immediate and totally not caring about more serious (and avoidable) health risks in the future, then I agree with you.
Yeah, I know I might be comparing apples to oranges, but I've always thought that the severity of a dissease is somewhat determined by your own health. Example would be if like a fat *** smoker got the flu it would be worse than if Lance Armstrong got the flu. Most likely I'm completely generalizing all the complications there most likely are, but is that somewhat true?
Posted by NES QueenYou picked a bad example seeing as how Lance Armstrong has cancer and his immune system is pretty shot to hell. But generally speaking, healthy individuals do tend to recovery and rebound from infections faster than less healthier ones.
[quote][URL="http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/56640.php"]http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/56640.php[/URL]
Diet-Induced Obesity Impairs Both Innate and Adaptive Immune Responses
Obese mice experience a far lower immune response than do normal weight mice to a vaccine typically given to cancer patients, according to studies by National Cancer Institute immunologists.
The diminished immune activity not only may explain the connection between obesity and heightened cancer risk, it also suggests that obesity might reduce the effectiveness of common vaccines, such as flu and tetanus.
According to Connie Rogers, Ph.D., MPH, a research fellow at the Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology at the National Cancer Institute (NCI) in Bethesda, several studies over the years have implicated obesity with diminishing immune function. In the early 1990s, studies showed low antibody levels after vaccination in those who had a high Body Mass Index, or BMI, which is a measure of body fatness.
Posted by mitchrlambTL;DR warning: science, boring, etc
NES Queen if you don't mind my asking, what do you do for a living? Just curious : D
Gonna pick apart the quote and have some fun with it.
Quoting NES Queen:
The loophole to all of that is that it still requires our own immune systems to actually and physically fight off the invading virus. Assuming first and foremost that we even responded appropriately and performed well during our trial run and have already made the required antibodies.
The only real reason for the antigen presenting cells to NOT get the job done is some form of immunosuppression or immunodeficient state. Either one is an exclusion to vaccination so that's pretty unlikely. The degree of antibodies made will vary from person to person but that can't be helped
[quote]
but just because you had immunity to measles as a baby doesn't mean you'll still have as good an immunity to it 30 years later. Myself being the perfect example, I'm no longer immune to measles. My titre is below the acceptable level to be considered "immune" and my body is no longer reacting to the vaccine and capable of producing the needed antibodies. So if I ever bump into someone with measles, I'm ****ed.
That's what boosters are for : D
And even though the measles was just an example, there were 55 reported cases last year (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/measles.html ). That's pretty low compared to what it would be without the shot.
[quote]
Plus the vaccine is only good against that particular strain of virus. Most viruses don't mutate that rapidly so your one vaccine is *usually* good for life. But HIV and influenza change too quickly for any vaccine to be truly effective.
Absolutely right!
[quote]The flu shot is the biggest scam ever invented. That only protects you against what some bigshot somewhere feels is the most likely strain to be circulating this year. So even if you have a 75% chance of catching influenza strain H1N1 and get vaccinated against that, there's still a 25% chance you'll catch strain H3N2 instead and still get sick.
Sounds like you know your flu facts, but in case you're unaware, there's a committee that solely exists to predict the three most prevalent strains of influenza in the coming year and pack 'em in a shot. So you're absolutely right, you're rolling the dice here. I personally don't get the shot cause it's just the flu. But about getting sick, that's ONLY for the live attenuated vaccinations. You can get the killed version, although I'm not 100% if they do that for the flu or not. If so, that would be the way to go for people 65 and older. Do you know?
[quote]So my beef with vaccinations is that they don't always work, they can have serious side effects in certain groups of people, due to the way they're manufactured can generate a severe allergic reaction in some people, and they give the less informed people out there a false sense of safety and security by thinking they're protected when they may not be. Unless you happen to work in a hospital or health care setting, how many of you have actually even had your antibody levels checked to see if your vaccinations worked and that you're truly immune?
So to reiterate, they work a very large amount of the time.
About the side effects, preservative allergies are taken into account. And you can get your antibody levels checked if you're really into that sorta thing.
But I mean, if you look at the prevalence of the diseases that they're fighting, it's hard to argue their efficacy in my opinion.
Either way, this was fun for me. Thanks NES Queen : D
Posted by WillisGreeny[Quote=NES Queen]I work here in the medical division. My main focus is with the Scientific and Laboratory Services (SLS) group, though I delve into QA and R&D projects as well from time to time.
Essentially I do research on blood/platelet filters that are intended to help make transfusions safer by removing viruses, white blood cells, infectious prions, and other icky bad shlt you don't want going inside of you when you get a transfusion.
This is why I refuse to argue.
Posted by mufflahttp://www.break.com/saw4/gross-knee-draining.html
ew ew ew ew ewwwwwww *barfs*
Posted by OmniIt looked like his knee was ejaculating. Pretty gross.
Posted by NES Queenmy degree is in Medical Technology, Clinical Laboratory Science. For my weekend job I work in a hospital pathology lab doing all the blood tests on the patients. Right after college I was a generalist, meaning I worked in all areas of the lab (chemistry, microbiology, hematology, immunohematology, special hematology, etc) but now I stay in hematology. I look at blood smears all day figuring what population of cells are present, detecting anemias, thalassemia's, leukemia's, and various other blood disorders. Occasionally I get stuck in urinalysis land playing with pee-pee all day long. *fun*
For my real job, the one paying my mortgage, my official title these days is Project Specialist - Blood Technology. I work for a company that makes filters for various applications (biopharm, aerospace, microelectronics, food & beverage, etc). So the division I work in is under the Life Sciences umbrella, specifically the medical group. We make blood filters that remove leukocytes and infectious prions from donated units of blood. Helping to make blood transfusions safer for patients in the hospital.
[quote=You]The only real reason for the antigen presenting cells to NOT get the job done is some form of immunosuppression or immunodeficient state.
Not true. I'm neither, my WBC count is quite healthy and normal. I have issues with my erythrocyte and thrombocyte cell lines, but there's nothing abnormal about my leukocytes. Yet for some reason I'm incapable of generating antibodies against measles. Go figure. And yes, I've had boosters. I was required to try and become immune before working in the hospital, but they gave up after 2 additional doses of an MMR failed to yeild an adequate response.
I'm not saying vaccinations as a whole are a bad thing, quite contrary. I just think we're going a bit overboard with them. When the benefits greatly outweigh the potential risks, and there's some actual chance a person could come in contact with a specific agent (HBV for health care workers, anti- malerial drugs for people planning on visiting Africa (yes, its a parasite not a virus, i'm well aware)), then yes, vaccinate away. But I'm not going to be the first in line for the latest and greatest vaccine to be produced just because its there. I'd rather my body spend its time working on antibodies for things that pose a greater risk to me than say smallpox or ebola.
Posted by mitchrlamb
Quoting NES Queen:
For my real job, the one paying my mortgage, my official title these days is Project Specialist - Blood Technology. I work for a company that makes filters for various applications (biopharm, aerospace, microelectronics, food & beverage, etc). So the division I work in is under the Life Sciences umbrella, specifically the medical group. We make blood filters that remove leukocytes and infectious prions from donated units of blood. Helping to make blood transfusions safer for patients in the hospital.
How exactly do you make a filter? I'm pretty ignorant about the whole situation since I'm unable to donate nearly every year.
[quote]Not true. I'm neither, my WBC count is quite healthy and normal. I have issues with my erythrocyte and thrombocyte cell lines, but there's nothing abnormal about my leukocytes. Yet for some reason I'm incapable of generating antibodies against measles. Go figure. And yes, I've had boosters. I was required to try and become immune before working in the hospital, but they gave up after 2 additional doses of an MMR failed to yeild an adequate response.
Huh, I learned something new today then (:
That sounds bizarre though, is there a name for that? It's definitely new to me.
Posted by NES Queen
Quoting mitchrlamb: How exactly do you make a filter? I'm pretty ignorant about the whole situation since I'm unable to donate nearly every year.
Leukocyte reduction and/or prion removal media (sheets of paper essentially) that have been specially treated with chemicals to attract certain elements within blood are stacked up on top of each other and sealed within a plastic housing. Tubing is attached to either end so the blood can enter into and then out of the filter, ultimately being collected into a new bag after it exits. The integrity of the system is always maintained, keeping it as a "closed system", so that the sterility is never disrupted. The pics below are of our whole blood filter. The tubing and filter is already attached to the collection bag, so after your donation finishes the unit can be brought to the lab for leukocyte reduction and further processing into packed red blood cells and plasma. Depending on the blood component being filtered, the actual filter set is slightly different, but this at least gives you an idea of it in action.
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ecoli742/pic008-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/ecoli742/pic009-1.jpg[/IMG]
[quote]That sounds bizarre though, is there a name for that? It's definitely new to me.
Yes. Non-immune. Antonym to the word "immune".
Posted by Shin-Ra
Quoting muffla: http://www.break.com/saw4/gross-knee-draining.html
ew ew ew ew ewwwwwww *barfs*
I get to do this in just two years time. I'm very, very excited because this shit rules. I just have to work myself beyond the cleaning diapers and cleaning poop first though, which really sucks. I'll be on more advanced stuff soon by the way. We're doing tube feeding, catheterizations, and wound care in the next few weeks! Next semester's going to be way more fun with all the shots and surgical stuff and the summer is Obstetrics. It makes me want to be a doctor or surgeon though, as their stuff is even more involving and full of less cleaning and meeting psychosocial needs with the patients. But yeah, back to the poop and blood, see why I'm so paranoid of e.coli, HIV, MRSA, etc?
Posted by mitchrlamb
Quoting NES Queen: The tubing and filter is already attached to the collection bag, so after your donation finishes the unit can be brought to the lab for leukocyte reduction and further processing into packed red blood cells and plasma.
So if it doesn't clean out all the WBCs, how much does it usually do? Like a ballpark estimate.
[quote]
pictures snipped
Awesome, thanks for the visual!
[quote]Yes. Non-immune. Antonym to the word "immune".
Oh, haha.
Posted by NES Queen
Quoting mitchrlamb: So if it doesn't clean out all the WBCs, how much does it usually do? Like a ballpark estimate.
In order to meet requirements by the AABB (American Association of Blood Banks) to label a unit of packed red blood cells as leukocyte reduced, the level or residual white blood cells must be less than 5.00E+06 WBC/uL. For platelet units it's lower, <8.3E+05 WBC/uL. The European standard for red cells is more stringent, they have to fall below 1.00E+06 WBC/uL.
That may seem like a lot, your allowed to have up to 1 million white blood cells and still call it "leukocyte reduced". But a typical non-filtered unit can have as many as 5.00E+09 WBC/uL. So we're talking in orders of magnitude here.
Posted by mitchrlambHm, interesting! You don't learn that kinda stuff by counting pills : p
Posted by misogenieAustralian TV series: Is Your House Killing You? tell findings of hidden dangers in the home such as air vents, carpets, wall interiors where disease such as Staph live. The ridiculous irony is that hospitals could be killing patients with their ventilation systems if left unnoticed.
Posted by cool gamer dadI actually got kinda paranoid about this whole staph infection thing for a while, being in conditioning class, and touching all of the weights and whatnot. I made sure to wash my hands mega good afterward, and avoided touching my face!
Posted by Shin-RaI dealt with a MRSA infected patient directly today. She had gotten it either through a spider bite (brown recluse can carry staph) or because she popped the bite and infected it. Regardless, she had it for about a week before she went to get it treated. It was extremely swollen (edema around 3 - 4 for pitting) and I and D surgery occured the next day (Incision and Drainage). The wound is healing up quickly and she has been afebrile (no fever) since she has gotten bit. This was my first time to deal with a patient with Contact Isolation, so it was neat.
Here's something I didn't know: They install a PICC line in the MRSA patients. This is a tube that runs through one of the three surface veins of the arm (in this case Cephalic) and run it to one of the greater medial veins because the Vancomycin is apparently too strong for the veins in the arms and need the greater vessels to help dilute the substance to avoid damage. Apparently the antibiodic is needed for about 6 weeks, and hopefully they actually stay on it for that long and don't make the bug stronger.
I was nervous throughout the whole procedure because there was a lot of blood and although it's nothing to worry about, I couldn't help it, the news has gotten to me a bit. I really enjoyed watching and participating though. I feel as though I understand the disease quite a bit more now.
tl;dr - Although it's not too hard to contract, it's easy to treat, but it takes a while.
Posted by mitchrlamb
Quoting Shin-Ra:
Here's something I didn't know: They install a PICC line in the MRSA patients. This is a tube that runs through one of the three surface veins of the arm (in this case Cephalic) and run it to one of the greater medial veins because the Vancomycin is apparently too strong for the veins in the arms and need the greater vessels to help dilute the substance to avoid damage.
They didn't teach me that either, neat!