Pan's Labrynth

Posted by maian

The trailer for this was quite intriguing to me. It looked like it could've been crap, but many reviewers have loved it a lot, and it got a 99% on RottenTomatoes. Unfortunately, it seems like a smalltime movie. Does anyboy know when it was released, or has anyone seen it? Apparently it was released in December, but I can't find it in any showtimes.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

... I thought it was a big-budget movie and wasn't getting released until next winter. Huh.

Posted by Tyler Durden

[URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457430/"]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0457430/[/URL]

Evidently it's already out?

Posted by Bebop

Its already out in Blighty. Meaning thats its showing times your side of the ocean has come to an end. Probably. Im going to try to check it out this week.

Posted by maian

Eh, just checked the site. Apparently it's a foreign language film. That mean it'll be subtitles? Anyway, it's not coming here until like, January 18 or something. Odd. A friend of mine has already seen it.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

It got a limited release on December 29th, which is probably how he saw it.

Posted by Bebop

Yeh it's subbed. A mate of mine has already seen it. It's Euorpean so it makes more sense for it to reach UK shores first. Should have thought of that earlier. Meh.

Posted by maian

Oh, nevermind. My friend is really spacey, and said he saw Labrynth, the David Bowie one. :) What language is it?

Posted by Tyler Durden

Spanish; Guillermo Del Toro directed it, too? Didn't he destroy Hellboy?

Posted by x.r0wney.x

looks very cool

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: Didn't he destroy Hellboy?

Nah, since that was actually a really good movie.

Posted by Tiptoegecko

Quoting Sadistic Grin: Spanish; Guillermo Del Toro directed it, too? Didn't he destroy Hellboy?

yes he did. Hellboy kicked ***, so Im going to check out this movie for sure

Posted by Bebop

Quoting Sadistic Grin: Didn't he destroy Hellboy?

Hellboy destroyed Hellboy

[Quote=Vamp]Nah, since that was actually a really good movie.

I saw Hellboy on a flight back from America. It was great. It put me straight to sleep and made that long flight home seem like I was watching one of the worst films ever created.

Posted by Tiptoegecko

Im downloading it right now, hopefully its living up to what everyone is saying

Posted by Arwon

Well it's about the aftermath of the Spanish Civil War as well as being a crazy fascist fairytale, plus it's in Spanish, so I probably need to go see it. Opens here in a week or two.

Posted by Tyler Durden

[quote=Vampiro V. Empire]Nah, since that was actually a really good movie.

Well, good because Mike Mignola had a deep hand in the developement of HB. I kind of feel like I'd crave to see the sequel.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I like the first, but I don't know about a sequel. Doesn't feel like it actually warrants one. I'll still go see it though. I at least know it's going to look really pretty and be a good popcorn flick.

Posted by Dexter

Pan's Labrynth? This is the first time I heard of it. I watched the trailer, looks like a crazy MirrorMask-type of film. I'll probably see it whenever it's released on DVD, since I doubt any theater around here is showing it, unless I decide to go to Portland.

Someone tell me why Hellboy was a good film. It didn't do anything for me. :(

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, it didn't do much for me either. It was still good though, in my opinion. The humour was there, the action was there, it felt epic, and the characters were pretty cool too.

oh and nazis. Love me some nazis.

Posted by Dexter

Characters were lame. Watch Magnolia.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

When I say characters I mean Karl Kroenen, the assassin. Who was awesome.

Posted by Dexter

Oh yeah, thinking about him kinda makes me want to watch it again. We have it here, so maybe I'll give it another viewing tomorrow and see if I have any sort of change in heart.

I don't remember him having much of a personality though. Just looking rad.

Posted by Tyler Durden

[quote=Vampiro V. Empire]Yeah, it didn't do much for me either. It was still good though, in my opinion. The humour was there, the action was there, it felt epic, and the characters were pretty cool too.

oh and nazis. Love me some nazis.

Nazis are always cool, just not in The Sound of Music. Or Hogan's Heroes.

[quote=Dexter]Characters were lame. Watch Magnolia.

**** yeah, watch Magnolia.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Quoted post: I don't remember him having much of a personality though. Just looking rad.

He never spoke and was always wearing a mask. He had no personality, but he certainly looked and did rad things.

Posted by Tyler Durden

[FONT=Book Antiqua]He didn't require a personality, Vampy. Kroenen was simply badass, and an all-around lovable guy. Which would explain why so many had fallen before his blades, they just couldn't get enough of that spectactular cutlery action. :cool:[/FONT]

Posted by Dexter

Whoa, now, the Nazis in The Sound of Music were acceptable.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Acceptable? No. Nazis are supposed to be superbeings of unrivaled magnificence. Acceptable isn't acceptable.

Posted by Tiptoegecko

Just got finished watching it. Amazing movie, though it barely took place in the labrynth, and most of the movie was that ****ed Captain killing everyone and too much on that revolution thingy. The ending was pretty bad as well. It had amazing potential, but he executed it a tad wrong.

Posted by Arwon

"Revolution thingy"?

):

Um, isn't the fact that it's specifically about a bloody, terrible time in history kinda important? It's supposedly a "fascist fairy tale" and sorta depicts the escapist psychological landscape of post-Civil War Spain, so that seems like that would kinda make the "revolution thingy" kinda, you know, essential?

Posted by Tyler Durden

[quote=Dexter]Whoa, now, the Nazis in The Sound of Music were acceptable.

Had they just studied a little harder and delved a little deeper on their research of modern German military codes and conduct. The "Nazis" in TSoM would have known to torch everyone of those singing dickholes in a fiery Blitzkrieg..

Posted by Tiptoegecko

Quoting Arwon: "Revolution thingy"?

):

Um, isn't the fact that it's specifically about a bloody, terrible time in history kinda important? It's supposedly a "fascist fairy tale" and sorta depicts the escapist psychological landscape of post-Civil War Spain, so that seems like that would kinda make the "revolution thingy" kinda, you know, essential?

well I know it was there for a purpose, it was the reason why she found the labrynth and all, but it took so much time away from Ofelia being inside the labrynth and magical world thing. Regardless its still a great movie

Posted by Crazy K

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Laberinto_del_Fauno

Posted by Ant

I liked it. Not my favorite in any regards, but cute.

Posted by maian

I just saw it last night, and thought it was fantastic. Totally worthy of the rewards it's been getting. I'm buying it, no doubt. Go see it.

Posted by Linko_16

Quoting Tiptoegecko: Just got finished watching it. Amazing movie, though it barely took place in the labrynth, and most of the movie was that ****ed Captain killing everyone and too much on that revolution thingy. The ending was pretty bad as well. It had amazing potential, but he executed it a tad wrong.

I disagree. I don't this movie was supposed to be just an "lol look at all this cool crap" movie like most of them are nowadays. Despite the name, the focus was on the captain and "that revolution thingy" just as much as the labrynth.

Here's what I get from this movie. Spoilers to follow.

The film is all about fantasy vs. reality. I doubt there was ever a faun or any fairies or anything abnormal, it's all in Ofelia's head. She sees a weird bug in the woods, and it transforms into a fairy for her... while, in reality, all it ever was was probably just some weird bug. She sees what she wants to see. As shown in the end, when she's arguing with the faun but the captain walks up and only sees her, none of it was probably ever real.

Understanding any medium of story-telling, books or movies or anything, is about considering why the story-teller includes the things they do. No line, no camera angle, no minute detail is ever just randomly decided on. You were quick to note that it focused an awful lot on the ordinary surroundings as well as Ofelia's little world - don't just write that off as the director choosing to be boring, think about how that was supposed to add to the film.

Consider, for instance, the story she tells her unborn brother about the rose on the mountain; it bestows eternal life to any who can touch it, but men are so afraid of being pricked by the poisonous thorns that they refuse to persue it. The guy didn't make that up and dump it on the film for no reason. It actually sets up the entire theme of the film. In a time of misery, do you fight to gain genuine happiness, or do you shrink away and console yourself with empty fantasies?

There are three parties to consider: Ofelia, the captain, and the revolutionists.

Ofelia has all these real problems (The captain's oppressive control, her mother's sickness) and, instead of facing them, she just dreams that there are magical solutions (She'll be taken away to rule in a land of perfect bliss, she can offer a magical remedy that improves her mother's health).

The captain is a parallel character to Ofelia in several ways. He's spent his life believing in the fairy tales of his childhood, too, about being a man, honoring his father, passing on his name, dying with pride, et cetera. Like Ofelia, he's grown up believing these as the true path to happiness, when in reality, it's all a bunch of hooey that slowly brings him to ruin. Consider his character motivation: does he think about why he does any of what he does, whether it's making him happy or not? No, he does what he think is expected of him by society, and he does so without question. Like the doctor tells him, only a man like him can simply take an order and just execute it. Just because he's on the top of the chain of command does not mean he doesn't just go through his paces like everyone under him.

The revolutionists are the true heros of this story, with a full perspective on things. They see the rose on the mountain (happiness) and, despite the risk of the fatal poison, they see no reason to accept anything else. They fight, perfectly willing to die rather than be absorbed into delusions like Ofelia has - Mercedes tells Ofelia that she once believed in fairies, but she has grown beyond such things.

Victory between these three parties comes in the form of the baby, who is a blank canvas on which they all wish to further their way of life. Ofelia thinks she is liberating him from his tyrant father, which is indeed a noble pursuit, but her solution is to take him to her kingdom and make him a prince. Because she did not previously take her mother's advice and take the world more seriously, her faith in these fairy tales does not save her from her father at all - she was shot. In her last moments she dreams that she has done all the right things and that she's been returned to her kingdom... when, as the camera shows us as it is suddenly slammed back down to reality, she's actually just leaving all the people who cared about her in misery because of her actions. The captain obtained the boy from her, thinking he'd been victorious. Although his forces had been overwhelmed, he consoled himself by believing that at least his son would "know the time his father died" and follow all the same paths he did. He, too, was disappointed, as the revolutionists refused him this comfort. Even if they hadn't, did his life of duty and hierarchy ever do him any good? Like Ofelia, the delusions he chose to live in eventually lead to his destruction without a true chance of really living life.

Justice is handed to the revolutionists, along with the boy. The film ends with good luck on their part; as the doctor pointed out earlier, despite all their determination and effort, the metaphorical poison could've just wiped them all out before they achieved the rose. But the story-tellers hand them victory, teaching that there really is no other way to live.

...

But hey, wasn't the Pale Man cool? I envy Doug Jones, who played both him and Pan - the two coolest characters in the film.

Posted by Bebop

I agree with the points Linko made but I still thought there was going to be more of a fantasy element. I guess I was basing that on Bowies 'Labrynth'. My biggest problem with this story was that it is too gruesome for children and too simplistic for adults.

Posted by Bebop

I dont think it was all in her head. I think it was real. Makes it more satisfying to watch that way. Plus the only thing to disagree with that is what an intoxicated man saw. Theres more evidence to support the idea that it was all real than not.

Posted by maian

Yeah, I agree with it being real. Besides, what about the mandrake root? The Captain clearly pulled it form under the bed, and her mother instantly got much worse when it was killed. Your imagination can't cause someone to start healing, then suddenly go bad.

Also, what about all the things she did? How about escaping from her guarded room with chalk? There's tons of possibilities, and I do like it more imagining it's real.

However, I'll be seeing it again with another friend of mine, so I'll have more to say.

Posted by Bebop

If it wasnt real how did she get the chalk in the first place? ;-)

Posted by Linko_16

Quoting maian: Yeah, I agree with it being real. Besides, what about the mandrake root? The Captain clearly pulled it form under the bed, and her mother instantly got much worse when it was killed. Your imagination can't cause someone to start healing, then suddenly go bad.

A psycologist will tell you that it's a common case for children to claim responsibility for these kinds of horrible things that happen in their lives, sometimes remembering it differently or thinking that they dreamed it before it happened.

In such a case, I'd imagine that her mother did indeed get better, but then when the baby came, she died during delivery - that much is certainly fact. For such details as the mother growing healthy immediately after she offers the mandrake root, as well as experiencing immediate pain after it is burned, remember that everything Ofelia witnesses is questionable if it's to be believed that the fantasy side of the story is false; as I suggested before, she could easily be remembering these events in her own way. She could've added the root (which did exist, obviously, since it was found by the captain) a fair amount before or after her mother began her return to health, and it could've really been days after the root was discarded.

There's not much point in argument, since it could really go either way, you just have to pick what you believe.

Posted by Arwon

Finally saw this, and loved it. Was amused by the constant swearing which wasn't translated into the English subtitles, and my inner Spanish history geek was giddy at the Falangist uniforms and insignia and rhetoric.

People lamenting the fantasy aspects being secondary are missing the point. The time and place was deliberate, very deliberate. Spain in 1944 was a harsh and desperate place to live. The movie is a parable about fascism, and life under fascism, and this is reflected in the nature of the promises and demands made by the faun to Ofelia which, otherwise, looked a bit random and pointless. The juxtaposition, for example, of the food-lines and rationing versus the banquet she wasn't allowed to touch lest she trigger the wrath of that beast... was obvious and striking.

Likewise, when the faun, in giving Ofelia a second chance, demands unquestioning obedience, he is directly parralleling the Doctor's final words to the captain about obeying for the sake of obeying. And when the faun demands the blood of an innocent, this is pretty directly in keeping with fascist ideas about the ends justifying the means and about sacrifices for the greater good.

Meanwhile: Here's some reading on the Spanish Maquis resistance to the Francoists and Nazis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_maquis Interesting stuff.

Posted by Bebop

People lamenting the fantasy aspects are not necessarily missing the point. The advertisments were presented in a way that gave the impression there would be a greater presence of the fantasy worl. There isnt. The whole "lol its about facism" argument is irrelevant.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

It's like Jarhead. People thought it was going to have tons of action but the main character never even shot a bullet. And people complained. Still a good movie, but advertised completely wrong.

Posted by Tiptoegecko

Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: It's like Jarhead. People thought it was going to have tons of action but the main character never even shot a bullet. And people complained. Still a good movie, but advertised completely wrong.

You forgot Smokin Aces too ;P

And The Omen remake, in the trailer it had the guy in the red cape, but he wasnt in the movie. But that movie sucked terrible ***.

Posted by Bebop

I loved Jarhead. I knew from the get go it "was a war film without any action". It was always marketted as a film about how boring war really can be and how different it is from the films. Well thats the way it was promoted in the cinemas went to.

Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I loved it too, but a lot of people didn't because, here at least, the trailers had a ****ton of explosions and guns and so on.

Posted by Bebop

Thats really weird. I dont remember any British trailers showing explosions or guns. As far as I remember the trailer started off like a typical war film but quickly gave the message across that it wasnt about being in battle or on the frontline but about the soliders themselves. I would have thought he US and UK trailers would have been the same. Oh well