CCTV

Posted by Bebop

Too much?
Too little?

Does it make you feel safe or uneasy?

Oh ooh oooooohh discuss :pikachu:

Posted by Arwon

Aren't you people one of the most surveiled countries on earth?

Posted by Bebop

London is (if Im remembering correctly) one of the , if not THE, heaviest surveiled cities in the world.

Personally I dont live in London. Where do you live Arown? How much CCTV are you aware of in your area?

Posted by mis0

I can't believe you people put up with the level of CCTV cameras you have in your country. It's truely rediculous.

I don't mind security cameras in parking lots and stores as long as they're not using the footage for anything else.

I strongly dislike general surveilance cameras employed by the government for anything, and the speed / red light cameras my state is starting to put up really **** me off. Especially that bastard mobile ones which they hide right on the other side of a hill. If they want to charge me with something, that's fine and dandy. A police officer can observe, and charge me with the offense right after it occurs. I will not pay tickets I get in the mail because a camera isn't a police officer, and the fines support the proliferation of these camera systems. Luckily, NM camera tickets are civil, not criminal, offences.

As a whole, cameras make me feel less secure and like I have to "act" in order to avoid trouble. I want some privacy, damnit, and I'm not such a coward to where I'd trade "security" for it. [spoiler]bebop note: i'm not calling you, or anyone else, a coward. i'm merely saying i'm not one.[/spoiler]

Posted by Arwon

I live in Sydney. There's a few surveillance cameras around, mostly in the areas where there tends to be a lot of drunks of an evening.

Posted by Bebop

CCTV in my area is justified I'd say. Aside from businesses and schools having CCTV (which to anyone makes sense Im sure) I can think of only 1 CCTV camera in my highstreet. Probably a 2nd on the other side. it over looks a few pubs and was great help in catching a guy who assulted a friend of mine. It certainly makes me feel safer, espcially after what happened to my friend. In a town over I think its the same thing. Its never felt like a privacy invasion around my area.

Posted by Fei-on Castor

Well, of course Closed Circuit Television for monitoring something without having to be right there. Obviously, I have no problem with business owners setting up a CCTV system to protect their investment and livelihood.

But setting up camera on public streets and so forth seems lame to me. Watching our city and looking for criminal activity is something that a police officer should be doing himself.

However, there is idea that you have no right to privacy while in a public place, so for you to be videotaped in public isn't a violation of your privacy.

Even so, it does make me feel uneasy when I know I'm on a road or passing a building and I will soon be on camera. Not because I'm breaking any laws, but because I feel like someone is watching me, waiting for me to break a law, and it is rather unnerving.

I would question how often those cameras have actually caught something worth catching.

Moreso than CCTV, we have a bigger issue in Phoenix.

There's this freeway in Phoenix that everyone uses to get around because it's well designed and can take you virtually anywhere in the Metro Area. At one point on the freeway, there's a radar box. A box that that clocks how fast your car is going. If you are exceeding the speed limit, a camera takes a photo of your liscense plate as you pass and you recieve a speeding ticket in the mail, within a few days.

That thing is sparking up huge debate, needless to say.

Posted by GameMiestro

Either there's virtually no security cameras in my area, or they're doing a really good job hiding them. Maybe that's why that bird keeps staring at my window...

Posted by Bebop

I always wonder if there are any security camers hidden I'm not aware of. I think by law CCTV areas need to have a clear visible sign placed somewhere.

Posted by mis0

Quoting Bebop: I always wonder if there are any security camers hidden I'm not aware of. I think by law CCTV areas need to have a clear visible sign placed somewhere.

Absolutely. If they're going to watch us, we should at least know they're doing it. Here we don't have any concrete laws saying that cameras must be noted, and there are plenty that aren't that one may notice from time to time.
Posted by Fei-on Castor

I think so, Bebop. Everytime you enter a store or a restaurant with security cameras, they have a sign posted on the door or other prominent location where you're likely to notice it on the way in.

However, I don't think that they have to make the cameras readily visible. I think that they have to post it in writing, but then after that, they can hide them as trickily as they want to, so that you can't tell from what angle you're being watched.

EDIT - Just read Miso's post. Miso, in Prescott, Arizona, anytime you go any place with security cameras, it's posted in plain view that you're being recorded. In fact, there are a lot of legal limitation on what they can record here. They can't record audio without your consent, but they can record video. A lot of stores and such have a sign that says, "Premises under video surveillence without capturing audio" or something like that.

I don't know if that just the local business owner's being honest, or if it's a municipal ordinance or if it's a state law here, but I know that it's common to enter a public place and see a sign like that.

Posted by Omni

I know there's a lot of CCTV where I work, but I never really get to see what, if anything, bad stuff and various types of incriminating behavior they've captured with it, though I'm sure it happens all the time.

Posted by mis0

Quoting Fei-on Castor: I think so, Bebop. Everytime you enter a store or a restaurant with security cameras, they have a sign posted on the door or other prominent location where you're likely to notice it on the way in.

However, I don't think that they have to make the cameras readily visible. I think that they have to post it in writing, but then after that, they can hide them as trickily as they want to, so that you can't tell from what angle you're being watched.

EDIT - Just read Miso's post. Miso, in Prescott, Arizona, anytime you go any place with security cameras, it's posted in plain view that you're being recorded. In fact, there are a lot of legal limitation on what they can record here. They can't record audio without your consent, but they can record video. A lot of stores and such have a sign that says, "Premises under video surveillence without capturing audio" or something like that.

I don't know if that just the local business owner's being honest, or if it's a municipal ordinance or if it's a state law here, but I know that it's common to enter a public place and see a sign like that.

You rarely see signs here, and as I mentioned ina previous post, they hide cameras in unmarked vans on the side of the road to catch speeders with no warning whatsoever. No signs, and often, literally almost no warning because you can't see the van until it's too late.
Posted by Bebop

I wouldnt consider speed cameras the same as CCTV since they only take notice of you when you go over the limit, rather than take notice of you and wait for you to go over the limit.

Posted by mis0

It depends on the system. Some are active (purely speed cameras, wait for you to speed, take the photo) and others are passive (like the APNR camera systems you guys have in the UK which record traffic flow, distance verses time, and that log your plate number). I'd call the passive CCTV, and the active are "speed cams" I guess. I'm not sure if we have the passive sort here yet or not.

Posted by Speedfreak

Spoilers: The cameras here are privately owned, they're all in bloody shops and car parks. You have no right to be annoyed by speed cameras because you shouldn't be speeding in the first place; speeding KILLS PEOPLE.

No one's watching you, no one gives a s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it. In my experience people who freak out about this stuff are technophobic, conspiracy theorist a[COLOR=lightgreen]s[/COLOR]sholes.

Americans especially shouldn't be complaining about trading freedom for security, especially when it's this minor. You don't have privacy when you're in the middle of a fucking town anyway, you're usually surrounded by OTHER PEOPLE.

To me this is a total non-issue.

Posted by mis0

Quoting Speedfreak]Spoilers: The cameras here are privately owned, they're all in bloody shops and car parks. You have no right to be annoyed by speed cameras because you shouldn't be speeding in the first place: h[/COLOR]it. In my experience people who freak out about this stuff are technophobic, conspiracy theorist a[COLOR=lightgreen]s[/COLOR]sholes.

Americans especially shouldn't be complaining about trading freedom for security, especially when it's this minor. You don't have privacy when you're in the middle of a fucking town anyway, you're usually surrounded by OTHER PEOPLE.

To me this is a total non-issue.

If you want people watching you at your job, on your streets, in your stores, and around your house, go ahead. Here in the "backwards" United States, we value our privacy more than that. And most of the examples of these cameras doing anything good is catching, not preventing, the perpitration of crime. By that logic, you might as well just carry some sort of weapon with you, because the crime is still going to happen.

Besides, your government has facial recognition, and plate-number recognition cameras set up. You're telling me you don't mind being monitored as a unique individual, and having your movements tracked and mined? If that's a non-issue for you, then so be it. Power corrupts, and the power to track people's movement will surely be abused.

As for your really retarded statement of "speeding killz!!11", you're wrong. I can drive my car down I-25 at 130mph all day long, it's not going to kill me or anyone else. Speed can be a factor in accidents, primarily when idiots who don't know the limits of their vehicles and the laws of physics, are pushing too hard. It comes down to human error most of the time, not "speeding".

Now I'm technophobic? Not in the least. I embrace new technologies that aren't abusing my rights. You Brits, though, seem so willing to trade privacy for what is an illusion of security. What I mean by this, is that clearly crime still happens. I'd rather just deal with it myself, you know, the American way of using some sort of physical violence/weapon than hope that I live and my plight was caught on camera.

edit: really bad grammar in first two sentences
Yeah, it's a non-issue for me too.
Posted by Lord of Spam

I like how having cameras around makes people feel safer. When was hte last time a camera stopped a punch that was heading for your face?

Also, as mentioned, speeding doesnt kill. I always go at least 5-10 over when I'm no in city, and so far Ive killed... lets see... oh, thats right, zero people. Talking on your cell phone while doing the limit is more dangerous than speeding while paying attention. I actually hearrd of a group of college kids who got a bunch of cars together and drove hte length of I-75, from wisconsin to Florida, doing the speed limit the entire way, one car in each lane (so that nobody could pass them). They caused something like a 20 mile backup. The speed limits are often lower than what they should be.

And yeah, I'm against the wide spread use of cameras in public, for the normal privacy reasons.

edit: I'll try to find a source for that thing with the college kids, since right now its heresay.

edit2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xkyuz0NtzOA&mode=related&search=
I'm not sure if these are the same kids. If so, I had the specifics wrong, but got the general idea right. Speed limits are stupidly slow on highways.

Posted by Bebop

Hitting someone over the limit has a higher chance than killing someone than if you were following the limit, whether your on the phone or not.

CCTV certainly makes me feel safer. Ive never been hit or mugged or anything but knowing that if that does happen theres a high chance the criminal can be IDed is reassuring.

EDIT: Did you know in UK it's illegal to drive while on the phone? I think it's wierd thats not the case in America if Im not mistaken.

EDIT 2: That video was quite lol. Pity is was poorly made by annoying emo kids.

Posted by mis0

Quoting Bebop: Hitting someone over the limit has a higher chance than killing someone than if you were following the limit, whether your on the phone or not.

CCTV certainly makes me feel safer. Ive never been hit or mugged or anything but knowing that if that does happen theres a high chance the criminal can be IDed is reassuring.

EDIT: Did you know in UK it's illegal to drive while on the phone? I think it's wierd thats not the case in America if Im not mistaken.

EDIT 2: That video was quite lol. Pity is was poorly made by annoying emo kids.


Obviously, we're talking about speeding in suburban and more-or-less "rural" areas rather than urban. It's stupid to speed in the city because there is so much foot traffic, and generally, there isn't a lot of space and the traffic is stop-and-go. Downtown that would be homicidal, but it isn't so for the surrounding area. Especially the empty desert areas where there is little traffic and clear roads. This is primarily where I speed. I always obey the limit in residential areas, downtown, and where pedestrians and children are present. And those are the minority of roads I drive on.

Back on subject: Like I said earlier, what security do the cameras really provide if they aren't preventing crime? Obviously people don't really care that they're there on camera or crimes would be severely reduced. But time and time again, violent crime occurs before the watchful eye of the camera. The perp being "caught" on camera does little good if you end up dead because of your reliance on it.
Posted by Bebop

Its irrelevant where your speeding. Its an offence and youre more likely to kill someone in a crash. Simple as. Youre trying yto justify reckless driving. Location doesnt suddenly make a crime legal or fine in the eyes of the law.

Cameras dont prevent crime. Police dont prevent crime. Nothing prevents crime. CCTV is supposed to help prosecute. It much easier to send a peadophile rapist to prison when youve got him on CCTV clearly abducting and molesting a little boy. The perp being caught on camera does alot of good. It helps to send criminals to jail.

Posted by Speedfreak

The fact that Misoxeny has just told me that driving at 130mph in Britain cannot kill anyone just proves that this is going to be like talking to a brick wall. You're just like Random, but with better grammar. Honestly, what a f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cking stupid statement. Screw this arguement, you probably haven't even left your G[COLOR=lightgreen]o[/COLOR]dd[COLOR=lightgreen]a[/COLOR]mned country. It sounds like you're just going off of what your friends tell you mixed in with the USs generally extremely narrow view of the rest of the world. SPOILERS: No one wears bowler hats and says "Pip pip" here, either.

You do realise that roads here are narrower, curvier, more tightly packed and require a hell of a lot more skill to drive on, right? Not only that, but people here tend to drive faster here so speeding laws need to be more heavily reinforced. That's why the special cameras are required, because we're not all that fond of paying to policemen sit on their a[COLOR=lightgreen]s[/COLOR]s all day with a speeding gun and a notepad.

That's why it's so pathetically easy to pass the average American driving test compared to a British one. It's not really any wonder why crap like NASCAR and Indy is so popular there when the rest of the world is enjoying Formula 1.

Posted by mis0

Quoting Speedfreak: The fact that Misoxeny has just told me that driving at 130mph in Britain cannot kill anyone just proves that this is going to be like talking to a brick wall. You're just like Random, but with better grammar. Honestly, what a f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]cking stupid statement. Screw this arguement, you probably haven't even left your G[COLOR=lightgreen]o[/COLOR]dd[COLOR=lightgreen]a[/COLOR]mned country. It sounds like you're just going off of what your friends tell you mixed in with the USs generally extremely narrow view of the rest of the world. SPOILERS: No one wears bowler hats and says "Pip pip" here, either.

You do realise that roads here are narrower, curvier, more tightly packed and require a hell of a lot more skill to drive on, right? Not only that, but people here tend to drive faster here so speeding laws need to be more heavily reinforced. That's why the special cameras are required, because we're not all that fond of paying to policemen sit on their a[COLOR=lightgreen]s[/COLOR]s all day with a speeding gun and a notepad.

That's why it's so pathetically easy to pass the average American driving test compared to a British one. It's not really any wonder why crap like NASCAR and Indy is so popular there when the rest of the world is enjoying Formula 1.

You do realise that we are each hurtling through space at thousands of miles an hour, right? Speed does not kill. And if it did, we'd all be dead already. Ugh, as if your brother wasn't bad enough, I see that his relatively closed-minded and unintelligent process of logical deduction runs in the family. Wonderful!

Driving a car at 130 miles per hour won't kill you or anyone. You, my friend, are making baseless assumptions. Did I say I drive my car at 130mph in a school zone in rush hour traffic? No. I never said I did it anywhere, anytime. And no, 130mph isn't going to kill anyone simply because it's 130mph we're talking about. In theory, on an empty freeway, yes, I could do 130mph all day long. Which is, in fact, what I said in the first place. Germany, for example, has an autobahn with no speed limits on bits of it, and is it the speed that kills the drivers who die there? No. It may be a contributing factor, at best, but speed doesn't kill on it's own.

I love your stupid assumptions about "winding roads". Not only do we have countless winding roads here, we also have roads which wind up a 10,000ft mountain, and countless unpaved dirt roads which require considerable skill to navigate. With nearly 650,000 motorists in 180sq mi, we have considerable traffic to deal with too.

So, take your self-righteous British-bs and shove it. You are not better than us, not by a long shot. Your brothers "sarcastic" exchange with Dark Kirby is more than enough to show that you lot make stupid generalizations about each other. That would make your arguement that Americans are stupid fair; the colonials did, in fact, come from Britian. Well, it's a problem for some of you, anyway. I'm German.

For the record, by the way, I like rally racing. I'll explain - extremely talented individuals drive modified passenger cars across a variety of terrain for hours at a time, trusting their navigator to give them accurate information about turns they have likely never seen before. It takes considerably more skill than driving around the same corners a hundred times in a row.

Posting emotionally-charged shit doesn't make you right, and not reading posts doesn't really help either.
Posted by Bebop

The first part of your post meant you were pulling stuff out of your arse again. You know, like where you try to compare America's roads to Englands despite you know nothing about England? Try to make valid points please. Or better yet go bus surfing.