Gay marriage leagalized in NJ




Posted by WackoHater2

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061026/ap_on_re_us/gay_marriage_22
It's about time too.




Posted by Killer Jordo

True that. I don't find anything wrong with gay marriages.




Posted by Raptor

Hey, there had to be something good to happen in New Jersey to make up for Panic and Sean Fury.




Posted by Arwon

It says that there can be no discrimination between same sex and opposite sex relationships but I think it stops short of demanding it be called marriage.

Oh well, "civil unions" are marriage. They become so by language creep. Muahahaha.

Oh wait, OMG ACTIVIST JUDGIES




Posted by The Judge

Meh, Holy matrimony I am strictly 100% against. Legal matrimony is fine with me.




Posted by Fate

Hooray! It's only a matter of time before other people see the difference between the two!




Posted by Boner

Meh.... I remain indifferent on the subject. It concerns and affects me to the degree of zero. Therefor, I really don't care either way.




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Boner: Meh.... I remain indifferent on the subject. It concerns and affects me to the degree of zero. Therefor, I really don't care either way.



Same here,


As long as their not in bed with me its ok.


Hell I dont even know why they are so restrictive in the first place.



Posted by Porcupine


Quoting Raptor: Hey, there had to be something good to happen in New Jersey to make up for Panic and Sean Fury.

Yeah, but not to conjoin them in holy matrimony. :(



Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

yay?




Posted by Sapphire Rose

Fucking faggots. Everyone knows homosexuals are posessed by demons.




Posted by mis0

Finally, some liberties being given to the citizens of "the land of free".




Posted by The Judge


Quoting Fate: Hooray! It's only a matter of time before other people see the difference between the two!

I can't tell if you're mocking me or not.

Or even if you're speaking to me.

What an odd sensation.



Posted by Philsdad


Quoting The Judge: Meh, Holy matrimony I am strictly 100% against. Legal matrimony is fine with me.


Exactly. This is pretty much how I feel except that I'd take it a step further, and "delegalize" marriage altogether and have legal civil unions for EVERYONE. That way, gays can have the same 100% legal rights as every straight couple without all the "but it's still not the same thing!" crap. Holy Matrimony would still be around in every church in America, and anyone who wanted one could still have a traditional, religious marriage as well (assuming their church would allow it of course.) On that note, churches should not be legally obligated to allow gay marriages, no matter what their reason for not allowing it. Forcing churches to marry gays, if they did not want to do so, would be a direct violation of their freedom of religion, which the Constitution guarantees them. But, it's none of the government's business whatsoever, which is why I support the same legal civil unions for ALL couples.



Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

Once again something posted in the war board happens in some other state in which I don't live and concerns people which aren't me. Yay.




Posted by Arwon

This isn't the War Board.

Also, Philsdad's post is fine in theory, and I agree that it's the ideal setup, but there's massive practical hurdles to that in terms of getting it instituted either legislatively or judicially. "Marriage for all" is basically easier. For example, only SCOTUS could overturn a past decision that held that marriage is a "fundamental right" derived from the 14th amendment. A lower level judiciary couldn't do it because they're vound by that decision (Apparently it's called Loving vs Virginia).

As for the state legislatures. It sounds good in theory, but there's still every chance that there's be a slew of court battles over whether people have a fundamental right to be married by their state and so forth. It'd end up being a costlier, longer and more grinding process than simply getting marriage redefined through basic notions of equality under the law. Which will keep happening, because it's f*cking obvious and the opponents of same-sex marriage don't actually have any good arguments. We've essentially won the culture war on this front, it's just a matter of the law catching up.

More to the point, switching to "civil unions for all" wouldn't solve much. The same people who are upset about same-sex "marriage" are likely to be equally upset that they cannot get "married" and that they're now considered "equal" to the **** f*ggots. I don't think the majority arguments about the definition of marriage (and grudging acceptance of civil unions for gays instead) are made in good faith... rather, they seem to be more about maintaining at least a notional superiority of opposite-sex pairings. "Civil unions for all" wouldn't provide that notion of superiority in a way relegating same-sex pairings to separate-but-equal "civil unions" does. I'm skeptical about "Civil unions for all" actually achieving their ostenible main goal--sneaking equal rights for gays past the bigot/traditionalist crowd and satisfying opponents of "marriage for everybody".

Also, given that the definition of marriage has mostly been a state issue... there are over 1000 federal marriage benefits that don't come with a "civil union". No individual state could implement "civil unions for everbody" without depriving everyone of those even if the court battles uphold it. They are, at present, separate but not equal and the difference still means something, in practical terms. This is another practical argument for going "marriage for everybody" because it's simpler.


I will say though, that the civil union decision in NJ is very clever. It's told the legislature to decide what to do, that same-sex pairings NEED absolute equality with opposite-sex pairings, but has not said anything about civil unions or marriages. The majority did *not* rule that civil unions were equal to marriage, only that it wouldn't decide that until after the legislature acted But this requirement of absolute equality makes it very very tough for the NJ legislature to call "civil union" equal since they are, quite demonstrably, unequal. So the inevitable second round of court battles will focus on this and probably rule that, hey, marriage for all.


I'm still waiting for the SCOTUS decision telling all the states that due to full faith and credit they need to actually recognise all marriages from other states. That'll be fun.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Raptor]Hey, there had to be something good to happen in New Jersey to make up for Panic and Sean Fury.

3rd Wave Ska, you Dream Theatre-loving son of a bitch.

EDIT: I didn't think that insult all the way through...




Posted by Bebop

I hate gays and they should be burnt.


Seriously though I think homos are rad.