[COLOR=Wheat][SIZE=1]Top Tier:
Fox
Falco
High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf
Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu
Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo[/SIZE]
[COLOR=Black]All from the massive players here in the US I assume. This list was created a liattle over a month ago, skipped my mind. Major noticeables are that they have decided to cut back on one tier slot (now instead of 6, its 5). The new ***s at the tournament scene must be fox and falco, followed by sheik, marth, and peach. Those five really haven't changed around much. What used to be high is now considered mid. Link is now top low from the usual top mid.
Those new to the tier list, this is just a list from best to worst in performances and constant testing. The last year and some months, the major tournament winners use the characters at the top, and very few use the ones in the middle, and barely none use the ones reaching the bottom. The character advantages are a lot more to those at the top than the bottom if utilized correctly... so on and so forth. Player skill is also involved.
A good example is Dire Vulcans game and watch scoring him a 3rd place at a gaunlet while I yet to ever get third using falco.
Discuss if you want about certain character placings on the list, if they should be higher or lower of another character.
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Seems about right. No one looks really out of place.
For some reason I can't get over the fact that Falco is below Marth. I always used to think that Marth was unbelievably broken as far as range and power goes, as well as his general sword attacks being excessively good(Based mostly on their general usage and basic style.). But then again, that just might be my own fault in the matter. I know how powerful Falco is, I just have more issues with Marth than a Falco... and its not like I play with total amatuers, either.
Fox I can see, I just don't think that Falco is that close behind him. But again, it could just be who I play with and what they're better at.
[quote=Lunairetic][COLOR=darkblue]For some reason I can't get over the fact that Falco is below Marth. I always used to think that Marth was unbelievably broken as far as range and power goes, as well as his general sword attacks being excessively good(Based mostly on their general usage and basic style.). But then again, that just might be my own fault in the matter. I know how powerful Falco is, I just have more issues with Marth than a Falco... and its not like I play with total amatuers, either.
Fox I can see, I just don't think that Falco is that close behind him. But again, it could just be who I play with and what they're better at.[/COLOR]
I'm a falco user, and I sure as hell know what you mean. I know what marth can do to falco, I've been hit hard by some real creepy **** marth can do. But outside of my falco, I've seen other falco have a much easier time on marths than I do, at least kicking their *** wise. Those top five are so close though, though I don't understand falco being up there. I understand fox with his one hit kill maneuver, but falco? I think marth is more neck at neck than falco is with fox or even peach. Then again, :P??
[quote]I'm a falco user, and I sure as hell know what you mean. I know what marth can do to falco, I've been hit hard by some real creepy **** marth can do. But outside of my falco, I've seen other falco have a much easier time on marths than I do, at least kicking their *** wise. Those top five are so close though, though I don't understand falco being up there. I understand fox with his one hit kill maneuver, but falco? I think marth is more neck at neck than falco is with fox or even peach. Then again, :P??
Ya, same. I'm a Falco user, as well as Doc - although Falco is my best. I learned Doc because Falco dies way too fast in FFA's. He kills quick but dies quick too. And that's one of the worst traits possible... which is why I really can't see him on par with Fox. I think you've got my feeling dead on there, though. Marth and Peach I'd say are more on par with Falco than with Fox, and Fox is in a league of his own.
The list is based for 1v1 and 2v2 with team attack on o_o
Hmm. I don't see how Zelda can be so low. Her speed and jump are pretty great when it comes to the player. She's very maneuverable. In fact, I don't think I could manage her very well if she had a large jump. Her tiny jump works wonderfully with her aerial moveset.
Her dodges and rolls are some of the best. Her throws are great. Her smashes aren't bad either. Her up smash has great priority, great speed, and a good knockback. Her down smash is fast too. It's got great range and rapes in edgeguarding. Her forward smash isn't too bad if you can catch the opponent in at least the last hit.
The only complaints I can imagine are her speed and wavedash, which I think are completely outweighed.
The hell? Melee matches and 1 v 1's are completely and utterly different on a character gauge scale. You have to take in so much more if the match is not a 1 on 1.
[quote=Lunairetic][COLOR=darkblue]The hell? Melee matches and 1 v 1's are completely and utterly different on a character gauge scale. You have to take in so much more if the match is not a 1 on 1.[/COLOR]
Yea, and at that point this list does not apply. Free for all, ganondorf becomes the *** since his attack has a creepy range, racks up damage quickly, and has a huge creepy knockback. Ganondorf is obviously much better in a 4 player free for all compared to fox or falco in a one on one.
As for Iris. Her maneuverability might be good, but I'm more than positive that changes horribly with someone running back and to from her and away with a speed thats 5 times as hers, and being able to quickly stop and either block an attack she'll throw quickly. IMO, her roll kicks ***, and her down smash is easily one of the fastest even if its not damage racking, it is a great edge guarder. One of the main things about zelda though is that she dies really really fast, she can't take much damage before she's thrown in the fray and more. An example can be ganondorf getting 3 hits on her and she's struggling back in, and her recovery is detectable. If she weren't so light, she'd be much better.
Yeah, speedy characters are a pain in the ***, especially when thrown in the air. Still, she's got pretty good range which almost makes up for that. Lightning kick will outrange a lot of aerial attacks and her uair trumps just about everything. It's juggling which can be a problem, although farore's wind can almost remedy that. Since her dair has such a small range, it can't really be used for interceptions. It's only good for killing characters with bad vertical recovery, and even then lightning kick is usually better.
Just change to sheik. Problem solved.
I haven't picked up the game in months, but it always seemed to me that Falco was at a fairly specific disadvantage to Marth but better over-all. So perhaps that's just a quirk in the tiering and I assume there's other examples of lower-tier characters having specific advantages against certain higher-tier characters.
[quote=Iris]Yeah, speedy characters are a pain in the ***, especially when thrown in the air. Still, she's got pretty good range which almost makes up for that. Lightning kick will outrange a lot of aerial attacks and her uair trumps just about everything. It's juggling which can be a problem, although farore's wind can almost remedy that. Since her dair has such a small range, it can't really be used for interceptions. It's only good for killing characters with bad vertical recovery, and even then lightning kick is usually better.
Not enough. People tossed on the bottom have advantages. It just doesn't outweigh their disadvantages. Being easily killed at the 60 percentile is an amazingly huge drawback. I mean, you'd have to perfectly execute almost anything you can possibly do to a character, I know zelda can throw up a heavy character, and then juggle them with up airs and some smashes and even end it with a quick swift kick. Problem is that at the point you start that, there's a good chance they did about 13 other things that they have available, even after including their power and cheap tactics. Marths quick sword, peaches down smash and quick neutral, foxes reflector and falcos laser. Those characters have too many advantages and SOME disadvantages which only a few people can take a chunk at.
If they gave those characters more of an advantage, say for instance, that zelda's reflector didn't paralize her that long, or that her recovery.. well let it go through the **** stage. Let her have something huge against these guys. Let her kick ALWAYS hit the sweet spot, its much easier to hit sweet with ness than her. Silly things like that. Zelda is completely incapable in the air. If she's being tossed around, good chance her down, forward, back, and up air are all useless especially with priority with those moves with are low, and her neutral is almost useless unless you're the one forcing it instead of trying to find a way out.
Outside of that, I think game and watch should be thrown all the way above young link.
[COLOR=Black]Oh huuraa... Im now low tier!
Let me know when Link is bottom -.^
Incase most havent seen, im semi, mostly, sorta, mmorpg killing my life away, retired. However there is going to be a big smash tourny in my area, ill post the details if they throw the responcibilty on me agian for getting people.
Got guys like m2k and other big names whom I forgot there...
Who did win the Cyberhub toruny anyway..?
I think the link to see the date and all is TheCyberHub.com
google it atleast or something, ts in pa.
*DarkBlade Dies Agian*
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I mostly agree with tis, the only thing that I think could maybe be changed is swap Marth with Falco.
I think it is a smart move how they have made it 5 instead of 6 now.
Looks better and makes more sense.
M2K made his own personal Tier List not 'that' long ago.
Top Tier:
Sheik
Falco
Fox
Marth
High Tier:
Peach
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doc
Mario
Middle Tier:
Ganondorf
Link
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Low Tier:
Donkey Kong
Roy
Zelda
Young Link
Pikachu
Bottom Tier:
Mr. Game & Watch
Yoshi
Bowser
Ness
Pichu
Mewtwo
Kirby
here is his support...
"Sheik - I think Sheik is the best in the game. Sheik is just too good, she has NO glaring weaknesses, her Bair nearly matches the range of Marths air moves just with less priority, really good wavedash back, ***ly F tilt, rapes you badly if you DI bad, she has an amazing shield, amazing shield wavedash, amazing down smash, CG half the characters to death, do 25% per grab to characters she can't CG, easily edge guard pretty much every character, she can needle camp characters that try to camp or laser camp her, and all her bad matchups arent even that bad at all. Jack managed to beat my Fox at OC2 most of the time we played, but in Sheik dittos I beat him like 60% or so. Robmoney beat my Fox at FC6 singles and OC2 in the end of a teams match, but at OC2 when I Sheik dittoed Rob I nearly 4 stocked him. I also do better against KDJ in Fox dittos than I do vs his Sheik with Fox. Sheik vs Fox is not bad at all. Sheik can ALWAYS smash DI out of up throw Uair in case you didn't know, or she can at least DI it so she won't be punished that badly.
Falco - I believe Falco is the best fighter "on the stage" in the game. His main disadvantage vs other characters is his easy ability to be "gayed" off the stage at a low %age. On the stage I believe he is the best in the game.
Fox - while Fox may be rated as amazing and such, I don't think he is the best in the game like people say. Fox is very fast and amazing yes, but a lot of his moves lack a very important thing which I believe will be important as the metagame evolves. That is called priority. He lacks the range of the other top characters, Marth/Sheik, and even Falco. His Shine, like Falco's makes you invincible the same frame you use it, but what good does that do if something like Marth or Sheik's Bair/Fairs hit you. 1 frame isn't enough for that. That's where Fox Bair camping comes into play. However, Fox Bair camping still doesn't have the range of Sheik or Marth's aerials, Sheik by a small amount and Marth by a large amount. Did you know Sheik's forward tilt goes THROUGH Fox's nair. Yes, Captain Jack CONSTANTLY did that to me at OC2, he kept forward tilting me whenever I would come at him, and the other two things he would do is hop back Fair and hop back Bair. Fox really can't get into a perfect Sheik that outranges Fox's every move. Jack reacts to many of my movement by hopping back and doing a Fair or Bair, and when he's not sure if I'm gonna dash but sees me start one he does forward tilt, so that it eats through my attack. but if he misses it's not like he really lags much. So then it comes to, well if Sheik always outranges Fox, how do I beat the Sheik. Camp them that's right. Oh, but every time I try to laser camp the Sheik, the Sheik charges and shoots needles as me, doing more damage to me in the long run than I do to Sheik. Then Sheik sits back patiently and outranges Fox's attacks when Fox has to come to Sheik. Fox doesn't rape Sheik people. Every good Sheik outranges all my Fox attacks, and I do better vs Marth/Fox/Peach and even Falco than I do against Sheiks with Fox, and I do know how to fight Sheik just fine. A Sheik playing really well can outrange all of Fox's moves.
Marth - he has a big weakness of being raped when he lands from any aerial attack which makes it hard to attack camping enemies who do random but smart attacks when he has no option of jumping at them without double jumping back to be safe, and his flaw of limited options upon landing and regarding tricking people into when he's going to land is a glaring weakness the top 3 characters don't share."
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Personally...i think its "alright"..i disagree on a few key notes as you'll notice w/ my list. M2k is an awesome player and noone knows more about the tech-side of melee than him since he's done 100% full researched data on frames and hitboxes...but he's been wrong in the past alot already, and you'll see how my list varies as well.
Cyphus's Tier List
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Top: Fox, Sheik, Falco, Marth
High: Ice, Peach, Capt, Samus
Mid: Jiggly, Ganon, Doc, Mario, Luigi
Low: Link, Young, Roy, DK, Pikachu
Bottom: Zelda, G&W, Mewtwo, Yoshi, Ness, Kirby, Bowser, Pichu
I donnot believe the top 4 should be separated from each other. they are all more than capable of handling everyone well as well as each other well.
The order is not as important as the tier separations, and i think people take order so seriously...it just creates more tiers.
Ice are deffinately "approaching" top tier w/ their easy-*** infinite (which btw, i do all the time and people hate it, haha)
Luigi is the best "low tier" hands down, and is underrated.
The low tiers all have good "potential" but tend to lack a key trait or 2 that gets them in trouble.
The bottom tier is bigger than the rest, because i think its pointless to separate them anymore. Whether ur chances of survival are 15% or 5%, makes no difference. The fact is, your character is extremely flawed and any "advantages" you have in battle are extremely SITUATIONAL. Bottom tier is where u belong. It doens't mean you can't win, but means your positive matchups are less than the vaster majority of smashers. And suprise, the "good" characters are the ones w/ forgivable weaknesses. Deal w/ it, bottom tier :(
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bleh, i dunno y i even came back to this forum, lol. I guess its just becuz its where i started out on smash, hahah. oh well..prolly won't see much of me in the future. later, my old community.
I just find it strange how far Kirby and Link have fallen since their glory days on Smash 64.
The guy above me bumped so whatever. :mad:
You probably should say Mew2King rather than making people new to it all having to guess.
:o ;)
Mostly fair enough.
I'd put Peach up in that top 5.
Especially in the PAL version of the game.
Falcon would be up there but it seems the only place he gets killed badly is by those other top tier characters.
i uesed to love kirby i didnt know he sucked that badly
No, he sucks very well.
Its one of his best moves when used to Kirbycide! :cool:
Here is the PAL (Basically everyone but USA and Japan) Tier list.
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97627
1.
Sheik
Falco
Fox
Marth
Peach
2.
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Jigglypuff
Dr. Mario
Ganondorf
Mario
3.
Luigi
Link
Yoshi
Roy
Donkey Kong
Pikachu
4.
Young Link
Mr. Game & Watch
Zelda
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo
The link has more detail if you want...