Does rap music influence crime?




Posted by Bebop

This has been a fairly recent debate in some British newspapers. An MP said a Radio station's late night 'hip hop' schedules had helped to increase gun and knife crime.

Discuss! :chainsaw:




Posted by Lord of Spam

Not nearly as much as the prevalence of low quality education and lack of solid parenting, though it does play a role in the glorification of violence to sime degree. But then again, the same can be said for angry rock songs (\m/ metal), violent tv/movies, and video games as well. Its rarely safe to blame such outside sources when the main problem is lack of parenting.




Posted by Fate

Rap music has an effect on crime the same way that pop music has on love. Um, it doesn't?




Posted by Raptor

Considering how easily influenced by the media people are these days, there is no doubt rap music is partially responsible for increased crime. gota raze havok and knife niggaz who b mackin' mah hos so I b like mah thug idolz LOL.

Though it's true, you can't blame the media. It's all about entertainment, and other people telling their own stories, while not necessarily insisting that others should take the same paths they supposedly did. If someone goes out and participates in a drive-by shooting after rap music fired him up for it, you can blame the way he was raised and the immediate environment he was brought up in, not the music. Insisting the media is primarily at fault for violent crimes is not only absurdly stupid, it's just the easiest way for parents and educators to pass the blame rather than accept the sad reality that they've done a ****ty job.




Posted by Fate

WHAT NEXT? VIDEO GAMES OR SOME **** LIKE THAT.




Posted by Lord of Spam

you cant say that being bombarded with images of violence and irresponsible behavior ("gottta quarter tank of gas/in my new e class/but thats okay/cuz im still fly" taken from a song by Big Tymers about how its okak to spend all your money on trivial things, or "im doing a hundred on the high way/ so if you're doing the speed limit get the **** out of my way" sung by ODB on aludcris song called "move *****", or pretty much any lil jon song ever about degrading women). But the point is that all of these are things that should be limited by the parent. Its up to them how they want to raise their kids, not hollywood.

edit: holy hell, I just got ninja'd by raptor and we said the exact same thing. I feel weird now.:(




Posted by XeroPercent

Rap music doesn't influence crime anymore then video-games influence murder.




Posted by Iris

Yes, I agree. The person can either consider it as music or influencial music. Regardless, it's the duty of parents, teachers, and friends; people that know the person, to prevent them from listening to this if they know it's going to influence them.




Posted by WackoHater2

Hellz naw nigga, I'm gonna shank you.

But on a serious note. No, I dont think so. Just my opinion. I dont listen to Eminem, then wanna beat on my girlfriend, lock her up in a trunk and slit her throat.




Posted by XeroPercent

People just blame music, movies, TV, video games, ect. because they don't want to take responsibility for anything. It's all a big cop-out.

Here's some rap lyrics for those F***ers...

"Is he a role model we can all follow full throttle
So we don't bother having to create our own model
That we go by? A fall guy I can hold accountable?
Cuz I don't want to hold the bottle for my own child
Is it really my place to raise little Billy
when Hilly and William should be building with him in the living room
Instead of bailing on him, and alienating him, and basically failing him
Sending him sailing on a mission to oblivion?
Then, inevitably on his day in court and Billy ain't the plaintif
The bailiff asks him to raise his arm and say his name in court
Of course his parents ain't in court, they play it off
Saying it ain't his fault
Blame it on Asian Porn, or his favorite artist
Beg your pardon?
Now, I do admit that in the music business
people do and say some really stupid ****
Kids are zooming in and using what we do and say
I can see how you can say "do not abuse your influence"
But to all the Hillaries and the Williams of the new millennium
If you really aren't feeling like living with the children will be a fulfilling experience
Or something you envision yourself willingly
and unconditionally committed to from the beginning
Maybe you shouldn't be bumping bellies from the giddyup anyway, dummy"

Lyrics Born - Stop Complaining




Posted by Crazy K

I think it has somewhat to do with crime. I'm not saying rap is to blame, because if it was, then movies, video games and so forth are to blame as well. But none of that is to blame. I have said many times that the parents are the sole purpose of the blame. If some kid watches some rap video that involves violence of any sort then the parents of that child should be to blame for not keeping a close eye.

This is much like video games and movies, kids like to copy a lot and at a young age they copy a thing because they, themselves believe it's something cool. But no rap is not the full blame of crime, but it might have influenced people to do such stuff.




Posted by XeroPercent

It's not like "rap" videos are the only ones that have violence. That's what, it seems, people assume.




Posted by The Judge

Garuanteed that idiot kids are out there trying to live "the thug life" just because idiots across the world are taking into this black culture bullsh[COLOR="black"]i[/COLOR]t and representing depravity, violence, decadency, and immoral activities as glorified and amiable qualities. People are easily impressionable, especially teenagers, who will do anything as longa s it's popular.




Posted by Crazy K

[Quote=XeroPercent]It's not like "rap" videos are the only ones that have violence. That's what, it seems, people assume.

Well yeah I know, I'm just saying that if a kid were to see violence in a rap video then they are able to copy it. It's the same way if the rap song stated "Kill a foo" or something like that.




Posted by XeroPercent

Just seems odd that no one cared when Clapton sang, "I shot the Sheriff" or when Johnny Cash sang, "Early one mornin' while makin' the rounds
I took a shot of cocaine and I shot my woman down"

Why does "rap" music get singled out?




Posted by WackoHater2

Because teens are into it.




Posted by XeroPercent

And obviously teens are the only one's who commit crimes, right?
This country needs to take a hard look and identify the real problems going on.




Posted by Arwon

NEWSFLASH FROM 1920:

Does jazz influence crime!?

NEWSFLASH FROM 1960:

Does rock and roll influence crime!?

NEWSFLASH FROM 1980 (or something):

Does Satanic heavy metal influence crime?



Those kids today.




Posted by Kodachi

Yes. Obviously not everyone who listens is going to commit crimes because of it. But, there are people who doo look up to those types of people and take what they say in their lyrics seriously. Those people are idiots, but they may also act tougher than they really are because of it. Rap music isn't the only music that does it. The music isn't EXACTLY to blame. It's more because people are morons, but that just pushes them in the wrong direction.




Posted by Lord of Spam

Uh, people flipped out at "I shot the sherrif" just as they did with "Cop Killah" and "**** the police". Its not limited to rap; its anything that kids get a hold of which contains violence. Hell, Manson got yelled at big time by all the right wing ZOMG DEVIL MUSIC!!1! idiots after columbine. That doesnt make it his fault though.




Posted by XeroPercent


Quoting Lord of Spam: Uh, people flipped out at "I shot the sherrif"


stop right there... because you're wrong.



Posted by Lord of Spam

oh hey good job backing it up with solid evidence and support rather than just telling me im wrong. man, you must be a total pro at debating. [spoiler]****ing moron[/spoiler]




Posted by XeroPercent

I felt no reason to support my claim becasue all you said was that they did freak out over the song, show me some evidance of that genius.


Edit: Guess you couldn't come up with anything, anyway, this is from Wikipedia, read and learn...

"Ice-T is not the first artist to embed a 'cop killer' theme in United States popular culture. This theme has been the subject of countless cinematic and literary works, and has appeared many times before in popular music. During the Great Depression, for example, musicians celebrated Pretty Boy Floyd and his exploits, which included the murder of law enforcement personnel. Similarly, the highly respected fiddler Tommy Jarrell wrote and sang 'Policeman,' which begins, 'Policeman come and I didn't want to go this morning, so I shot him in the head with my 44.' But perhaps the best-known case is Eric Clapton's cover version of Bob Marley and the Wailers' 'I Shot the Sheriff,' which reached the top of the U.S. music charts in the mid-1970s (a feat not approached by Ice-T). 'I Shot the Sheriff,' though, never suffered the sort of moral and political condemnation leveled at 'Cop Killer.' How do we account for this difference?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

No, it's just a coincidence that only nigras listen to rap, and only nigras break the law. There's no direct influence, it's just something deeply rooted in the black gene.




Posted by Bebop

As far as music is concerned each song's representation of crime should be looked at individually. Even then though, only the mentally unstable will take it to heart.

But I will say hip hop culture glorifies crime. And if your role model is Snoop Dog then drugs, pimpim, drive bys, kidnap, murder, theft, and jay walking will be a great way to show your appreciation for your idol.




Posted by XeroPercent


Quoting Bebop: But I will say hip hop culture glorifies crime. And if your role model is Snoop Dog then drugs, pimpim, drive bys, kidnap, murder, theft, and jay walking will be a great way to show your appreciation for your idol.


Snoop is a model citizen now, he's in it for the kids man.



Posted by Sapphire Rose


Quoting XeroPercent:
Edit: Guess you couldn't come up with anything, anyway, this is from Wikipedia, read and learn...

"Ice-T is not the first artist to embed a 'cop killer' theme in United States popular culture. This theme has been the subject of countless cinematic and literary works, and has appeared many times before in popular music. During the Great Depression, for example, musicians celebrated Pretty Boy Floyd and his exploits, which included the murder of law enforcement personnel.

Yes, during the Great Depression, where people would obviously be ****ed at the government in general.
[quote]Similarly, the highly respected fiddler Tommy Jarrell wrote and sang 'Policeman,' which begins, 'Policeman come and I didn't want to go this morning, so I shot him in the head with my 44.' But perhaps the best-known case is Eric Clapton's cover version of Bob Marley and the Wailers' 'I Shot the Sheriff,' which reached the top of the U.S. music charts in the mid-1970s (a feat not approached by Ice-T). 'I Shot the Sheriff,' though, never suffered the sort of moral and political condemnation leveled at 'Cop Killer.' How do we account for this difference?


Because back then, while still an issue, it was not a cutural phenomina as it is now.

And yes, people DID freak out over it. My mother is a huge Clapton fan. Hell, she even has the local newspaper where an editor blames him for youth corruption.

So don't act like rap is the only music that is ever under fire, as that makes you look ignorant.



Posted by Bebop

I think its fair to comment on the time period of the Clapton song. Although not a music historian, I'm willing to bet there was not as much music about crime as there is in rap.




Posted by XeroPercent


Quoting Sapphire Rose: So don't act like rap is the only music that is ever under fire, as that makes you look ignorant.


I never said that, my point is that I've never seen a large group of people camped outside a record company, protesting Eric Clapton.

And what's ignorant is not seeing the huge differance in the responce when a pop/rock/country/ect. group or singer mentions violence in their music, and when a rap artist mentions it.


Quoting Bebop: I think its fair to comment on the time period of the Clapton song. Although not a music historian, I'm willing to bet there was not as much music about crime as there is in rap.


Which should have singled it out MORE, don't you think?



Posted by sniper

Rap music doesn't influence shoddy culture, shoddy culture influences rap music.




Posted by Aioros

[COLOR="Yellow"]Am i the only one who thinks that there isn't as much music that glorifies violence as there was in the early and mid 90's? From what i've heard nowadays, with rap especially, is songs about *****es and ho's but not as much about killing and drive bys.

Then again, i'm not that informed about the music industry. The only time i listen to music is when i'm in the car, and generally i don't listen to current music since most of it is not that good.[/COLOR]




Posted by mis0

Unless you guys can find the crazy subliminal messages telling me to shoot up my neighborhood, I think you've gotta blame the perp rather than their CD collection for the crime.




Posted by Fate

Like Paul said, Js on the BenZ is where it's at.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Unless you guys can find the crazy subliminal messages telling me to shoot up my neighborhood, I think you've gotta blame the perp rather than their CD collection for the crime.


I almost typed out an argument that was the Rape Thread in disguise.



Posted by Speedfreak

I think rap culture influences crime. You have to be an idiot to not realise that it glorifies guns, womanising, drugs and murder. The music adds to the culture, but on its own the music does bugger all.




Posted by Shin-Ra

Yeah, well I listen to Black Metal a lot and I still have yet to burn a church, worship Satan or some other ridiculous made-up beasty, fuck an animal or dead body, or kill anyone for that matter (nigras and homosexuals especially). Go me! Does the music itself influence people? Sure it does, because it speaks of subjects often overlooked or demonized by the media and curiosity attracts people (the young especially). It's no more evil than the internets or television. But I'm sure it's entirely more annoying for the people who dislike it.




Posted by Aioros


Quoting Princess Fate: Like Paul said, Js on the BenZ is where it's at.

[COLOR="Yellow"]They spinnin nigga, they spinnin.[/COLOR]



Posted by Killer Jordo

Rap music is gas to the 'gangsta' fire. Teens see their role models talking about 'popping a cap in yo ***' and so they go and pop a cap in someones ***. I'm not saying that everyone will do that. But it does help to build those actions.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Shin-Ra]Yeah, well I listen to Black Metal a lot and I still have yet to burn a church, worship Satan or some other ridiculous made-up beasty, fu[COLOR=white]ck[/COLOR] an animal or dead body, or kill anyone for that matter (nigras and homosexuals especially). Go me! Does the music itself influence people? Sure it does, because it speaks of subjects often overlooked or demonized by the media and curiosity attracts people (the young especially). It's no more evil than the internets or television. But I'm sure it's entirely more annoying for the people who dislike it.

As far as I know, Black Metal culture doesn't geniunely glorify murder and arson.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: As far as I know, Black Metal culture doesn't geniunely glorify murder and arson.


It was part of the culture though. Whether it's intended or not, young kids can look upon that and think it's cool. And obviously that's exactly what happened in certain cases.



Posted by Lord of Spam

[url=http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/drdre/naturalbornkillaz.html]Early 90s rap[/url], [url=http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bigtymers/stillfly.html]late 90s/early 00 rap.[/url]

Interestingly, as rap has become more commercial, and the early themes of racial oppresion and gang warfare have become less relevant. As rap moved its target demographic to more affluent (and hence more able to buy records) areas, they began to shift to more flashy and monetary themes. This was also aided by the success of certain rappers, who then began to glorify their newfound wealth (noteably, JayZ and Sean "Name of the week" Combs). To cut a long story short, as rap became more popular, it suffered the same fate of any underground thing that was made popular: white guys in suits toned it down to sell it to white kids.




Posted by Bebop

I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to read those links. If I can't stand listening to rap so I won't be able to stomach reading it.

That aside it may be toned down, but it's still naughty ;-* Even if lyrics about killing cops and drinking Kool Aid aren't as common, celebrites and those in the music industry are still "dressin lik gangstas, pimpin der hos and smaking the H". I'm sure that side of the culture has boomed phenomically when shallow rich white kids adored the dress sense and general attitudes of the newer rap stars e.g. Eminem and




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Shin-Ra: Yeah, well I listen to Black Metal a lot and I still have yet to burn a church, worship Satan or some other ridiculous made-up beasty, fuck an animal or dead body, or kill anyone for that matter (nigras and homosexuals especially). Go me! Does the music itself influence people? Sure it does, because it speaks of subjects often overlooked or demonized by the media and curiosity attracts people (the young especially). It's no more evil than the internets or television. But I'm sure it's entirely more annoying for the people who dislike it.

Like I said, it does influence people...just stupid people.



Posted by chaser3592

well considering most rap is about either sex or wife beating i'd say it doesn't influence it but it gets it in your train of thaut but i wouldn't say it influences it
although drugs they do promote




Posted by Arwon

Rap is bad. Songs like Ms Jackson just perpetuate terrible messages about drugs, wife-beating, and sex.




Posted by Lord of Spam

[quote=Bebop]I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to read those links. If I can't stand listening to rap so I won't be able to stomach reading it.

Translation: I'm not going to read that because I dont want me argument to get shot down.

Face it, rap is rarely about killing and violence anymore. Sure, theres some in there , but its primarily about money and success. Take, for isntance, the song "Ridin Spinnaz" by Three Six Mafia, feat. Lil' Flip:

Intro)This for all my playas out there ridin spinnas i dont care where you at, the club parking lot, the express way ,whatever. what I want you to do right now is just stop and let 'em keep on spinnin baby.

(chorus)I'm ridin spinnas, I'm ridin spinnas (they dont stop)I'm ridin spinnas, I'm ridin spinnas (they dont stop) I'm ridin spinnas , I'm ridin spinnas (they dont stop)they rollin I'm ridin spinners x7

I put tha pedal to the medal then stop (err)took another sip from the syrup then stop (err) let my seat back drop the top then stop (err) see me somn sexy spot that *** I gottta stop (err) my rims so shiny they clean like flat screen plasma gal screem when they see em its hard to breath like they got asthma, olda people trippin cuz they think they seein things. my car sittin still but my rims still rollin man they off tha chain

Everybody let cha spin wheels spin like a spin mill juicy J on certain fields criusin down to knoxville see them things shinin sparkin like a diamond bumpin the ride and why you bi**es lyin eyes like a chinese im drinkin on the hiney im ridin on tha strip any party you can find me you rolling with the finest from north memphis highness we ball till we fall till tha playa age 90

(chorus)
yeuh
i got 20" spinnas on my drop nothin but white and yellow rocks in my watch
I'm doing 150 so im watching for tha cops since i'm in a lambrigini i aint gon stop I'm packing my glok believe it or not I'm ready to bust round here we drink purple (man we drink that tusk)so grab a cup juice so i can pour it up and if you reprasent your hood go on and throw it up its tha l-i-l-f-l-i-p if I aint smokin trees I'm holdin free throw tha roll tha keys and let me roll cuz this tha way we ball im just letting you know we like our music slow but our cars go fasta I'm in tha v-12 with my cousin big shasta I'm lil' flippa in tha top 10 sella everybody slowin down cuz my drop is yellow

(chorus)

I saw my dog with the syrup so I (err)
they spinin like a saw so dont touch em when I (err)I saw a shakin brotha own me money so i (err) see me choke the hell up out my brawl when I (err)when you stand by the blaze you can feel a slight breeze stop and have some dubs just to keep em all clean roll up in tha peabody tha most expensive suit them thing atill spinnin shen I fill out tha reciept I used to be clean in my expedition a girl see me and she'll be wish that I stop and spent some pimin its mackin in me baby i just thought I would mention she got hot like in tha kitchen you see my kin folks they cars they glisten aint nothin like street where the cars are spinnin you see me baby im just in it to win it.

Now, lets compare that to another song, Revelations carved in Flesh by Naglfar:

Naglfar Lyrics

Revelations Carved In Flesh Lyrics

I stand above the norm
Reptile in human form
With jaded eyes I look upon
the rest of you with scorn
For all that I can see
A world of enemies
and mindless flocks of easy prey
The catalyst for my needs

I bring the secrets of the grave
It's yours to keep if you choose to follow me
Just close your eyes and the last thing that you'll feel
A ravenous kiss of steel

The beauty of an opened ribcage
It's close to reverie
I give thanks to this dirty ****
She gave her heart to me
Prepare the skin and work the flesh
with knives, meathooks and razorblades
These are the precious tools I use
for the art that I create

[Chorus]
Her body now broken and cold to the touch
So perfect for me to embrace
The severed head kept, with which later I'll play
When ripened into that condition I crave

(Like three days fresh from the grave)

I dream of shattered bones and screams
A place where I am king
Where torn up bodies pose en masse
in erotic scenes of pain
The score of kills now march my age
A fine total of twenty-eight
An endless source of memories
for me to masturbate

A new toy strapped on bloodstained sheets
Inspirtation soon fills me
With a rusty bonesaw I conduct
the sweetest symphonies
Trough all these years I've realized
The only time I feel alive
Is when all living things around me
suffer and then die

I bring the secrets of the grave
It's yours to keep if you choose to follow me
Just close your eyes and the last thing that you'll feel
A ravenous kiss of steel

[Chorus]
Her body now broken and cold to the touch
So perfect for me to embrace
The severed head kept, with which later I'll play
When ripened into that condition I crave
Three days in passing and out comes my amour
to finally get just what she deserves
Bulging eyes staring and begging for more
So gag on my semen you dead ****ing whore

(Revelations so pure)

I dont know about you, but I'd rather young kids listen to peopel telling them to make lots of money than someone advocating the desecration of murdered corpses. :/


Quoting Arwon: Rap is bad. Songs like Ms Jackson just perpetuate terrible messages about drugs, wife-beating, and sex.


I see what you did there, and I like it.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, if you kids think rap is bad, take a listen to half of the music I do. It may not be as accessible (lol wait what kid doesn't have a computer?) but it's a thousand times more violent than anything any rap artist will even dream of making. The above lyrics are fairly tame compared to a lot of other material I have.

Oh, and don't say it's not as influential, because it's just as influencial as any other genre is.




Posted by Lord of Spam

http://www.lyrics007.com/OutKast%20Lyrics/Ms.%20Jackson%20Lyrics.html

the song arwon was refering to. It contains the line

"private schools, daycare, ****, medical bills, I'll pay that "

I mean, come on. Is this what we want our kids to listen to? How dare a man stand up and advocate caring for your children. I'm outraged, personally. This cd should be banned.




Posted by Bebop

Christ theres a 50 Cent song about raping a girl! Just because some rappers 'discuss' their success doesnt mean the entire music genre has forgotten its prison roots. Every rap song I hear nowadays still mostly focuses on crime in one way or another. Charmillionaire anyone? Probably one of the most recent successful rap songs. I too would prefer kids to listen to songs about going to school and drinking milk but unfortunately the majority of rap (espeically if you include underground stuff) really doesnt cater for this. For every rap song about earning an honest days wage theres hundreds more about pimping. There goes "my argument being shot down". Just because some artists have decided to expand their subject matter doesnt mean all will. LL Cool J is an example of the former and 50 Cent is an example of the latter.




Posted by Gollum

There are people who understand black metal vocalists? :eek:




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: There are people who understand black metal vocalists?


I can understand the majority (that are in english) just fine =/



Posted by Bebop


Quoting Irrelevant: There are people who understand black metal vocalists? :eek:


I find that almost as wierd that people enjoy rap. Almost.



Posted by Lord of Spam

First of all, the vast majority of underground rap isnt about what you're claiming it is. I furthermore find it hard to belive that someone who claims an overpowering aversion to a genre (to the point where merely reading the lyrics is an annoyance) could have anything close to a reasonable hold on what the genre is about. For instance, the song "Whats Hardcore?" by K'naan" is about pretty much nothing but ending the warfare and genocide in Somalia. ([url=http://www.whatsthe411.ca/index.asp?pageID=65#What's%20Hardcore]sauce, with a clip from the song[/url])

As for chamillionaire, considering that the onyl song of his ive herad is about him being hassled by cops while he ISNT doing anything illegal (i.e. ridin' dirty) i'd say that you're pretty far out of touch with the genre.

The simple point is that "rap" is far too encompassing a term to really make any statements about. If I wanted to, I could get into quoteing futuristic sex robots, mc chris, mc hawking, optimus rhyme, or any of the other nerdcore bands. So shut up, because you have no idea what hte **** you're tlaking about.




Posted by Bebop

You dont understand. One example of a postive rap song doesnt erase the millions of other negative subject matter ones. Stop trying to use that. It doesnt work. Look again: There is a 50 Cent song about rapeing a girl. I could count the number of successful postivie maintstream rap songs on one hand. Not as tailored for white kids as you might think.

As for Charmillionsaire, what I remember, he still raps about smoking illegal substances and using guns. His song was about finally getting caught. Oh well the representation is in the audience not the artist I suppose.




Posted by Arwon

There's a Decemberists song about gang-raping a woman.

OMG INDIE ROCK CAUSES CRIME.

Also, it's a well known fact that rap causes crime. Just look at the violent insurrection against "the power" that occurred after Fight the Power was released.




Posted by Bebop

Theres a Shins song about love. Using Spams logic it removes all negative subject matter of all songs in that genre. Woo!




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Bebop: You dont understand. One example of a postive rap song doesnt erase the millions of other negative subject matter ones. Stop trying to use that. It doesnt work. Look again: There is a 50 Cent song about rapeing a girl. I could count the number of successful postivie maintstream rap songs on one hand. Not as tailored for white kids as you might think.

As for Charmillionsaire, what I remember, he still raps about smoking illegal substances and using guns. His song was about finally getting caught. Oh well the representation is in the audience not the artist I suppose.


did you miss the song where A MAN WAS TALKING ABOUT DESECRATING THE CORPSE OF A WOMAN HE HAD MURDERED, THEN HAVING SEX WITH HER SEVERED HEAD? Seriously, man, you're coming off as a giant racist. ZOMG TEH NEGRO MUSIC IZ EVIL!!1! Well, wheres the outrage about metal? Its like its okay as long as you like it, but if its black WHOA NELLY its evil.



Posted by Bebop

Coming off as a racist? What? This is a thread about rap, not metal. Christ on a bike....




Posted by Lord of Spam

Thats precisely my point, twit. Even when presented with evidence that there are things that are far more detrimental than rap, you still persist to rant bout how dem thar negros is gunna rape the white women.

Its idiocy. Rap has little to no effect that proper parenting cant solve. Same with tv, any music, and videogames in general.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Coming off as a racist? What? This is a thread about rap, not metal. Christ on a bike....


Whoosh.

Also, ONE song about a 50 cent raping a girl doesn't make the entire genre about crime and violence. Yes of course there will be more than that one, but nearly every genre has has at least ten songs that focus on violence or crime or drugs. That's the point he was making.

As for the metal lyrics, it's just to show that there's far worse music out there that influences kids. Music that, on a whole, IS actually about violence and the like.



Posted by Bebop

What the crap are you talking about? Have you been reading this thread at all?

[quote=Spam]Its idiocy. Rap has little to no effect that proper parenting cant solve. Same with tv, any music, and videogames in general.

I guess not. Do yourself a favour and read the thread.




Posted by Bebop


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Also, ONE song about a 50 cent raping a girl doesn't make the entire genre about crime and violence. Yes of course there will be more than that one, but nearly every genre has has at least ten songs that focus on violence or crime or drugs. That's the point he was making.

Just like one song about kids going to school doesnt make the entire genre about education and peace. Christ....

He was saying rap has moved on from the crime subject matter when it clearly hasnt. The example of a 50 cent song is an exmaple of this, not an example that all rap music is crime orientated (although it too is very crime orientated). It seems dumb of him to claim an entire music genre has switiched subject when just recent examples of successful songs destroy that theory. Thats my point.



Posted by Fate

It seems more dumb to lump an entire music genre as stupid.




Posted by Bebop

It seems dumb to have preffered genres of taste? Whatever you say, Nazi.




Posted by Fate

I wasn't being hostile to you, idiot. You can have your preferred taste, but feigning disbelief on someone's genuine interest in a genre you don't like makes you look like a retard. Can you really, really, really not believe it? Are you suggesting, honestly, that all music of a certain genre that you don't like shouldn't possibly be liked by anyone else, or that all messages in today's rap music is all about degrading women, robbing banks, or shooting cops?

You turned this hostile. You are an idiot. No wonder people get tired of arguing with you. We're not even discussing anything and I'm already finished with this.




Posted by Bebop

Do I find it hard to beleive someone can really like rap? yes. Becaus I fail to see the appeal in most rap.

Do I find it hard to beleive all rap music uses message of degrading women, robbing banks, or shooting cops? Yes. But I do beleive that hip hop culture and the majority of rap music still focuses on crime as a subject. Unless you think pimpin isnt a crime.

You sure I turned it hostile first? Really sure? Perhaps you could skip a few pages back and realize for yourself.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Just like one song about kids going to school doesnt make the entire genre about education and peace. Christ....

He was saying rap has moved on from the crime subject matter when it clearly hasnt. The example of a 50 cent song is an exmaple of this, not an example that all rap music is crime orientated (although it too is very crime orientated). It seems dumb of him to claim an entire music genre has switiched subject when just recent examples of successful songs destroy that theory. Thats my point.


There's always going to be rap songs about violence. The entire genre could move on to preaching about how awesome school is, but there will still be 50 Cent rapping about getting shot in the face. That doesn't cancel out the fact that the large majority of artists have realised that **** is retarded.

A couple dozen songs or artists doesn't hold back an entire genre.



Posted by Bebop

I know a couple dozen songs or artists doesn't hold back an entire genre. I'm not saying it does. I'm not the one saying "look theres one song about going to school. Artists have moved on!"

Just a glance at hip hop culture and the latest successful mainstream rap songs destroys the idea that all of rap has moved away from the naughty subject matter, which is what Spam is saying. It hasnt. Its like saying that just because a pop artists have moved away from love songs all pop is going in a new direction. Some rappers may have taken new routes, and there may be new styles of rap, and new subject matter but it is still mostly focuses about crime. Whether it be committing crimes, affected by crime (Toy Soldiers by Enimem) or whatever. Next I'll be told hip hop has abandoned the pimps and hos culture and adopted the 'ice cream vendor' look.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Except mainstream rap makes up a very small percentage. The rest of the genre could have moved on without the mainstream. Just because you hear a bunch of artists rapping about crime on the radio, as I said, doesn't mean much of anything. It's a drop in the bucket.




Posted by Bebop

That is true about mainstream. It is just one part of the music genre but its by no means a mere drop in the ocean. But if you consider it in terms of how large an audience it is reaching than its a different story. Fair point though. That said considering the hip hop culture still treats criminals and hookers like ***s so I find it hard the over half of the music for that culture would be significentlly different. You know? Like how emo (and I'm using a stereotype here) is all about suicide and being alone and kissing other boys, so it would only make sense for the music to reflect that.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Like how emo (and I'm using a stereotype here) is all about suicide and being alone and kissing other boys, so it would only make sense for the music to reflect that.


Thus allowing me to not bother with this argument anymore. Lord.



Posted by Bebop

Woot! I win again! *goes to chalk board*




Posted by Lord of Spam

I'm not even going try to debate this anymore, the concept is stupid. Bebop has already not only admitted that he wont listen to rap, but wont even read any lyrics. Its pretty hard to show someone that they're wrong when they jsut stick their head in the sand and go LALALALA I CAN THEAR YOU IM RIGHT LALALALA.

The fact is, if you look at rap from its underground roots, it was about things that were relevant in those times to those artists (drugs, crime, violence, and police opression). If you look at rap now, its about things relevant to those artists (i.e. finacial success (eg being pimp isnt the same as being A pimp), popularity with women, etc). Yes, there are songs that contain violent lyrics, but these are there for no other reason than to lend credibility to the "thug" or "street" demographic. kids who are out on the streets dealing for food arent goig to listen to the problems of some guy with 50 mill sitting in his bank account, so rappers need to keep some smeblance of cultural relevance.

Bebop can suck my nuts so hard that they get stuck in his throat and choke him to death.




Posted by Bebop

Again, one example of a song where its lyrics are not about crime doesnt speak for all. Its hard to show someone a song where its lyrics discuss raping a girl and prove not all rap has moved on when all they wont to do is put their fingers in their ears and shout LA LA LA ALL RAP MUSIC HAS MOVED ON NO RAPPERS TALK ABOUT DRUGS LA LA
You're assuming things relevant to the artist will solely be about their success. It could be anything, and it doesnt speak for all rappers. Get it through your head. Not every rap artist has moved on. Emerging ones still cling the age old crime stuff, only more succesful ones such as Jay Z and Eminem have moved on.
You seem to think all rap has moved on. It hasnt. Just because some artists have taken new routes it doesnt account for every rapper, especially emerging ones. As for being A pimp, its still a pimp. Thats a crime you know?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

You're dumb because you can't get a simple point.

That ends that.




Posted by Bebop

About time you came to your senses and agreed with me.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I don't recall you calling yourself dumb or wrong. But OK.




Posted by Bebop

F-f-f-f-fail. I dont get why you find it hard to understand that not every rap artist has moved on. Its a flawed argument.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I don't understand why you fail to realise that because a dozen mainsteam artists haven't moved on doesn't mean the ENTIRE GENRE AS A WHOLE has. It's like taking an entire school and basing it's learning abilities on the retard class.




Posted by CynicalBastard


Quoting Lord of Spam: The fact is, if you look at rap from its underground roots, it was about things that were relevant in those times to those artists (drugs, crime, violence, and police opression). If you look at rap now, its about things relevant to those artists (i.e. finacial success (eg being pimp isnt the same as being A pimp), popularity with women, etc). Yes, there are songs that contain violent lyrics, but these are there for no other reason than to lend credibility to the "thug" or "street" demographic. kids who are out on the streets dealing for food arent goig to listen to the problems of some guy with 50 mill sitting in his bank account, so rappers need to keep some smeblance of cultural relevance.


I quite accede (and was going to rep you but I can't right now).


Quoting Bebop: Not every rap artist has moved on. Emerging ones still cling the age old crime stuff, only more succesful ones such as Jay Z and Eminem have moved on. You seem to think all rap has moved on. It hasnt. Just because some artists have taken new routes it doesnt account for every rapper, especially emerging ones. As for being A pimp, its still a pimp. Thats a crime you know?


Not every rap artist has moved on, Bebop, but that doens't mean that new trends couldn't have started. Just like not every metal band has evolved from the "Hail Satan, misanthropy = good" type ****, but that doesn't mean that there can't be new lyrical trends in the genre.



Posted by Bebop

Im not saying the entire rap genre, including every artist, is still crime orientated.

Just alot, from what ive heard, are especially if you consider emergin rap artists, and the culture is still much the same. It makes perfect sense.
Rap is saying every artist has moved on. Im saying not everyone has, thus the genre hasnt entirely moved on.

EDIT: Cynical, what are you talking about? Im not saying new trends dont exist. Just that a few new trends doesnt mean every artist is following the same route. Something Spam, for someone reason, thinks is the case.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Just alot, from what ive heard, are especially if you consider emergin rap artists, and the culture is still much the same. It makes perfect sense.
Rap is saying every artist has moved on. Im saying not everyone has, thus the genre hasnt entirely moved on.


The genre has entirely moved on. There's just a few stragglers because they can make easy money without having to think. They do not hold rap back.

And apparently you haven't heard a lot. I know this and highly doubt it.



Posted by CynicalBastard

Bebop, I thought LoS admitted that there are still rap artists who write about violence, etc, when he said:


Quoting Lord of Spam: Yes, there are songs that contain violent lyrics


Did I not understand something, or take something out of context?



Posted by Bebop


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: The genre has entirely moved on. There's just a few stragglers because they can make easy money without having to think. They do not hold rap back.

And apparently you haven't heard a lot. I know this and highly doubt it.


The genre hasnt entirely moved on because there are still some artists sticking to the old. For it to entirely to move on every artist needs to forget about crime. See how that works?

All that has happened is rap has become more diverse. I wouldnt call it the same as the entire genre changing. Its just a case of it branching out.

Cynical, he may have said some songs are about violence but he was still saying that even though there are songs like that it has all moved on. For all of it to move on, it all needs to move on. Not just some.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: The genre hasnt entirely moved on because there are still some artists sticking to the old. For it to entirely to move on every artist needs to forget about crime. See how that works?


No because that's not how it works. A genre is independent of the individual artists in it. Otherwise genres would be seriously ****ed up.



Posted by Bebop

Genre isnt completely independant from the artists. Genre relies on its artists to create the conventions for it.

And genre is already ****ed up.




Posted by Fei-on Castor

When I think of old rap, I really don't think of violent rap. There was NWA and Body Count, but more than that there was Digital Underground, Young MC, Fresh Prince and DJ Jazzy Jeff,Salt and Pepa, Run DMC and other artists that really didn't get violent with their music. They did get sexual a lot (see "The Humpty Dance" by Digital Underground), but not really violent.

The rap music you hear today is grossly different than what you used to hear. For one thing, back then, the rapper usually had their own DJ that was part of the group, but these days people don't really care about who created the music that 50 Cent speaks (not sings) over. That's a peculiar fact to me because most people claim to like rap songs for the beat because it's good to dance to, but they dont' even know who put that beat there. They do, however, know the guy's "name" who raps over the dance-worthy beat.

Back to the issue of the thread, I've heard it said that to say rap music contributes to violence is to say that Grand Theft Auto Vice City contributes to violence amongst youth. I've heard that said before.

However, I disagree with that statement. When I play a game like GTA:VC, I take on a totally different role, someone seperate from myself. I'd never want to imitate Tommy Vercetti. He's a cool guy, as far as high-profile criminals go. But he is no role model to me. I've been curious how that sort of lifestyle plays out and I get a chance to have a small, small, small peek at it through playing the game.

But with urban youths and rap music, it's not like that. That music defines their culture, in many ways. It defines how they talk. It defines how they dress, and a lot of times, how they behave.

It does suck to live in Los Angeles, I'm sure. That's why I don't live there. The only way it might be okay to live in LA is if I had a lot of money, which I don't, so for me, living in LA means living in a slummy area, which I don't want to do.

These rappers had the misfortune to be born into families that had no business raising children (generaliztion, mind you, not always true) and as a result, they had difficult lives, filled with obstacles. They used rapping to reflect and "deal with" the hardships they experienced. And now they're ultra super mega rich with a lot of good stuff going for them.

So we associate a poor situation and bad circumstance with monitary success. Doesn't seem healthy.

People take rap so seriously, too. "Weird Al" Yankovic had parodied many artists by the release of 1996's "Bad Hair Day". And he usually personally called the artist to verify that they didn't mind that he was parodying them. Virtually every artist hastily agreed and most of them considered it an honor. I believe Kurt Cobain even said that he knew he had made it when "Weird Al" did a parody of "Smells like Teen Spirit".

"Weird Al" released "Bad Hair Day", and the first single was "Amish Paradise", and it did relatively well, in terms of comedy songs. In a press conference, Coolio was asked what he thought of the song. Mr. Coolio (and the 3 arbitrary black guys with him) shook their heads, saying "Nah" a lot, and Coolio said that his song was too serious. He said, "They called me, I said no, but they did it anyway, I couldn't stop 'em. ... I hope they sell a lot of records, but, uh, stay away from me."

WTF? Does he really feel that his song was that important? And do you actually think that Al personally was told "no"? Of course not! It's ridiculous that Coolio would do that. I guarantee it was a publicity move for him. He had to seem hard and tough and all that. I guess that "Gantgta's Paradise" isn't a bad song, and it doesn't really glamorize the inner city life...

I guess what I was getting at about 12 paragraphs ago is that for every Eminem who will make it when he tries, there are 1,000 people who will not.




ARGHHHHHHHH There's a lot of conflict and I feel like writing about 11 more paragraphs about this, but I don't feel like I will have made any substantial points by then, so I'm done for now.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Genre isnt completely independant from the artists. Genre relies on its artists to create the conventions for it.


Key word being "individual."



Posted by Bebop

If genre is seperate from individual artists why should those individual artists shape genre?
So one minute a few individual artists being different means the genre has altered, next minute indivudal artsits have no influence. What?

A case of a few artists swapping point really doesnt mean much. Majority (espeically in maistream which is the most important considering thats the music reaching the largest audience) is staying put.




Posted by Lord of Spam

When did I say EVERY artist moved on? If anything, I said the didnt, but that was what left was mere vestiges of its former levels.

Point is you have admitted you dont listen to rap. You know nothing about it, therefore you are unqualified to speak on what it does and doesnt contain. So shut your ******* mouth, you stupid ****ing ****.




Posted by Bebop

You said every artist has moved on when you said the entire genre moved on. Also you said artists now only rap about what is relevant to them. You seem to think thats narrowed down just to success. Couldnt crime be relevant to them?

I dont listen to rap regulary. Unfortunately I am still exposed to the mainstream stuff. Also I have heard many a rap song before. The hip hop culture is still thrown around TV and publications, especially in my video games, for me to not be aware of it.
By your logic you cant talk about rap because you havent heard every single song made by every single artist, signed or otherwise. Seems you arent qualified either.

Theres still certainly enough crime in songs to safely say rap hasnt moved on completly from crime. The culture only backs that up. I'll be perpared to say rap has abandoned crime subject when the culture stops glorifinf prostitutes, drugs and drive bys. That way it will be clear only a select few would still be clinging to it.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: If genre is seperate from individual artists why should those individual artists shape genre?
So one minute a few individual artists being different means the genre has altered, next minute indivudal artsits have no influence. What?


Do you not get the concept of "individual"? Seriously, you're an idiot. An individual does not shape a genre, a genre is shaped by the majority or a group... as in not a single individual but rather a very large percent of those that make up the genre. Christ.



Posted by Shin-Ra


Quoting Irrelevant: There are people who understand black metal vocalists?

I'm a vocalist, so I do. However, if someone can understand that insanely low Goregrind stuff (Lord Gore and Wargore), I give them praise.

More often than not, people seem to care about the image more than the actual music itself. Lyrics are somewhat important here, but I think it's mostly weak people trying to latch onto something bigger or stronger than them; hence, all the people dressing or acting a certain way because of a genre of music.

Still, I'm against censorship in music, even if people are so easily influenced into violent actions. Mainly because once you start censoring this material you have to draw a line, and where exactly where that be is generally determined by those uneducated in the subject and more concerned with their own political agendas. Plus, people will find ways around it. Screw it, I say. The problem isn't the music, it's the weak, blindly devoted fans of the image. If I could find that interview with Ulver that's used in Lords of Chaos, I'd use it. They say basically the same thing I did, only they were far more eloquent about it.



Posted by Bebop


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: An individual does not shape a genre, a genre is shaped by the majority or a group... as in not a single individual but rather a very large percent of those that make up the genre. Christ.


Sweet Mary and Joseph you're an actual mong. I'm not the one saying a select few artists are changing the genre. Ive been going against that and saying the opposite. You know, like when I said "just because a few rappers talk about school and milk doesnt mean the entire genre has changed"?



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Except it's not "a few." If you could actually read, you'd understand that when I say a majority changes a genre I mean the majority is changing the genre. What you're saying is that because 50 Cent sings about raping a girl the entire genre hasn't shifted, when in fact it has. The majority has changed it and the minority has no affect.

So, I guess you're the "mong."




Posted by Bebop

50 Cent is my example, not my proof or the majority. Could you read that? The majority is still staying put. As is the culture.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

dur maybe i used your example as an example dur. No ****. I'm not going to list every single artist that still raps about crime.

Also, for someone who hates and knows next to nothing about the genre, you seem to believe you know a whole lot. Interesting.




Posted by Bebop

I'm exposed to enough rap and rap culture to know. Stop being a hippy. If artists such as 50 Cent can sells millions on nothing more than rape and mugging songs that alone pretty much proves theres still a market and demand for that. Thats why emerging artists follow that route. Because people still listen to it yes? Lets agree to disagree. Youre not prepared to admit that rappers still talk about crime in some way or form and Im not prepared to lie and say rappers are doing it for the kids now. I'm done with this.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

it's silly to say downright "no". At least ONE person has been influenced enough to at least attempt to mimic what they've heard or seen. That's influencing.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I'm exposed to enough rap and rap culture to know. Stop being a hippy. If artists such as 50 Cent can sells millions on nothing more than rape and mugging songs that alone pretty much proves theres still a market and demand for that. Thats why emerging artists follow that route. Because people still listen to it yes? Lets agree to disagree. Youre not prepared to admit that rappers still talk about crime in some way or form and Im not prepared to lie and say rappers are doing it for the kids now. I'm done with this.


... except I've admitted some still rap about violence and crime. To say otherwise is ****ing retarded. Also, the point isn't to prove that there's still a market... OF COURSE THERE IS. The point of all of this is that, though there's still a market for violent rap, the majority and rap in general has moved on. That's all.



Posted by Fei-on Castor


Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: it's silly to say downright "no". At least ONE person has been influenced enough to at least attempt to mimic what they've heard or seen. That's influencing.

I'd be willing to bet that the number is much, much greater than one.

A lot of mainstream rap music glamorizes crime. I grew up listening to rock and roll, and I wanted to be like the rock stars, singing about love, life and emotion, in general. I'd guess that if someone grew up listening to today's rap, they'd want to be like the rappers, involving themselves in gangs and such. I mean, they promote such silly violence between rival gangs (west and east, etc...) over silly things like "gang turf" that doesn't actually belong to you, and gang colors, so bad that wearing the wrong color while driving in a certain part of L.A. can get you killed.

This seems to be the lifestyle expressed in rap music, and it prolongs the problems that inner-city kids are facing. It would be great if you could grow up in Compton without having to join a gang. But you can't. You have to get with one or the other, and if you don't, you'll have two gangs messing with you everyday. At least joining one of them will aid in being left alone by the side that you're on.

It sucks that a young teenager has to join a gang in a big city. I feel for them. But the older gang members felt the same way when they were younger. And it's largely in part to the fact that the music they're hearing seems to promote the idea of gangs and the stupid violence associated with them.



Posted by Meftah

Naw I really don't think so. What I think causes cirmes is negative influence form parents. Family relatives dieing especially close ones. and some of the stuff you see on TV.




Posted by ExoXile

YES.




Posted by Captain Cleanoff

To answer the thread question, no. It's the other way around - crime influences rap music. The rap lyrics that recall the crimes generally recall them from what the rapper has lived through. That's more common then someone listening to a rap song about drugs and guns and going "Hey, I'll buy drugs and guns because 50 Cent said so!"




Posted by Desperado

I believe that Real Hiphop (rap is diffrent) reflects reality. Sometimes it's the harsh side of things and sometimes it's the playfull side. These days, you barely hear any real hiphop (no lyrical skills). The Underground still keeps the art from alive though.




Posted by Arwon

Now that I think about it, Talking Heads have songs that portray terrorists and Norman Bates-ish serial killers in a sympathetic light, not to mention several songs about Armageddon.... and half the Decemberists' catalogue seems to be about rape and prostitution and kidnapping and other kinds of violence.

I wonder if that means I or other fans of these bands are more likely to be disposed towards such things myself.




Posted by Captain Cleanoff


Quoting Desperado: I believe that Real Hiphop (rap is diffrent) reflects reality. Sometimes it's the harsh side of things and sometimes it's the playfull side. These days, you barely hear any real hiphop (no lyrical skills). The Underground still keeps the art from alive though.

Oh, stop it. Just because you like something doesn't make it real, and just because you don't like it doesn't make it fake. Underground punk fans are the worst at failing to make this distinction, but underground fans of anything usually don't see the difference.



Posted by Desperado


Quoting Captain Cleanoff: Oh, stop it. Just because you like something doesn't make it real, and just because you don't like it doesn't make it fake. Underground punk fans are the worst at failing to make this distinction, but underground fans of anything usually don't see the difference.


Well it's true. Most rappers today have little or no skills on the mic. It's still music so anyone can love it. That aint the point though cause most of them can't EMCEE. It's all about how many *****es you got or how many dollars you can throw at the camera. Don't get me wrong, we still got commercial emcees who can bless the mic but not as much as in the underground or oldschool era.



Posted by Captain Cleanoff


Quoting Desperado: Well it's true. Most rappers today have little or no skills on the mic.

That doesn't change what genre it is. Some metal bands have little to no skills in playing instruments, singing/screaming, songwriting and production, but they're still metal - they're not posers just because they suck. They're just sucky metal.



Posted by Desperado


Quoting Captain Cleanoff: That doesn't change what genre it is. Some metal bands have little to no skills in playing instruments, singing/screaming, songwriting and production, but they're still metal - they're not posers just because they suck. They're just sucky metal.




Allright. It's how you see it and I respect your views. To me, it's about being true to the game and the art form.



Posted by specopssv44

I like rap music, personally Im a huge fan of DMX, but I am also sensible enough to understand that just because he sings about doing certain things, it doesnt mean its ok to do... but some people are kinda retarded and will try **** like that.




Posted by misogenie

[COLOR="Cyan"]I really like to hear from the rap artists themselves. I can imagine their righteous and strong messages if fans want to keep buying and listening to their albums:D DON'T DO EVIL MAN. JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MAIN MAN. HE WILL LOOK AFTER YOU ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE. AMEN TO THAT. GLORY TO G@D THE FATHER AND JESUS SON OF G@D. [/COLOR]




Posted by specopssv44


Quoted post: I really like to hear from the rap artists themselves. I can imagine their righteous and strong messages if fans want to keep buying and listening to their albums DON'T DO EVIL MAN. JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MAIN MAN. HE WILL LOOK AFTER YOU ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE. AMEN TO THAT. GLORY TO G@D THE FATHER AND JESUS SON OF G@D.


hey bro chill out. Im christian and all that, but that doesnt mean I havent ****ed up, or done "evil" things because I was in a situation, or had to freaking do it. Everyone deals with difficult **** in their life man and everyone (including me and you and every other ****er on this site) has a story to tell. Rap artists obviously do it through music.



Posted by Captain Cleanoff


Quoting Desperado: Allright. It's how you see it and I respect your views. To me, it's about being true to the game and the art form.

No, what I'm stating is fact. What your stating is like saying that a Ford Taurus isn't a real car, because it's a turd, it has horrible handling, bad ride quality, skinny tires, whatever else you hate on a car. That makes it a crap car, but that doesn't make it a fake car or "not a real car". That just makes it a lame car.



Posted by Sean Fury

I think that musical artists write about what they want. They make a song into a story they once heard, or a story they made themselves, or just a bunch of words that sound good together, or what happened to them yesterday, just whatever they want. Some artists have themes, most rappers tend to sing about what it's like "on the streets" or "in da hood" wherever the cool kids are hanging out. I liked what Cleanoff said, it's the other way around, crime influences rap music, a lot of crap goes on inbetween rap music and crime (for instance, at the House of Blues in Atlantic City recently there was a MASSIVE brawl at a rap concert where every police car and officer in the city had to be called in to help put it down). Rap music is influence by crime and by the negative parts of life, therefore the people who will listen to it are more than likely people who understand or have been a part of that and thusforth creating lots of problems when people from gangs go to their concerts.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

It's more of a vicious circle if anything. Crime influences rap and rap influences crime if you want to look at it that way.




Posted by specopssv44


Quoted post: To me, it's about being true to the game and the art form

dude are you black or just pretending?



Posted by Tiptoegecko

How can you say "no"? All rap is about is f'ckin girls they could never get if they werent rich, drugs, crime and gang fights. And the government blames video games for violance and crap. It really ****es me off how stupid people are. And rap can thank the Beatles and Sargent Peppers.


Quoting Desperado: To me, it's about being true to the game and the art form.

Im sorry, but what art form? What art? (No Offense to anyone Black) It's a bunch of ignorant black people speaking into a microphone. If they wrote lyrics that had good meaning and could actually speak "proper" english, then I would accept it. Rap is a joke.



Posted by Fate

This just in: Blondie was the first white rapper (pretty much, lol). White people can rap, too. Rap isn't all about the things you just listed, so you can go on and on about how stupid people are for making or listening to it and it will fall on deaf ears. If you reread your post, you might just want to run into a knife for perpetuating a stereotype of a genre of music you obviously don't prefer, so far as to denounce any form of art it may pose as.

You are the joke. Mandatory post end stab for the win/lose.




Posted by Tiptoegecko


Quoting Fate: This just in: Blondie was the first white rapper (pretty much, lol). White people can rap, too. Rap isn't all about the things you just listed, so you can go on and on about how stupid people are for making or listening to it and it will fall on deaf ears. If you reread your post, you might just want to run into a knife for perpetuating a stereotype of a genre of music you obviously don't prefer, so far as to denounce any form of art it may pose as.

You are the joke. Mandatory post end stab for the win/lose.


1) Dont tell me to kill myself, its not nice. I live a happy life thank you very much
2) Rap is a joke, there is no talent coming from it. The rappers dont write thier lyrics or beats, it gets hand fed to them and they dont even sing. THEY TALK. I COULD DO THAT FOR CHIRST'S SAKE
3) name me some rap songs that don't include some sort of violence that could easily influence young kids that isnt coming from a white kid named Eminem.

And it isnt a sterotype. Its reality. Time for a wake up call smart one

And I dont perfer it your right. I like music where real talent is in use

+ no hard feelings I hope. This is agrument, lets keep it grown up : )



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Christ, don't even bother posting in this thread.




Posted by specopssv44

Tiptoegecko, you suck at life. How can you sit there and call Rap Ignorant, if a black dude raps about life as a black dude then none of us can really call it ignorant unless we're black right? Call me ****ing crazy, but last time I checked, video games, rap music, and marilyn manson have nothing to ****ing do with the crime rate, ****ty no brain ****ing parents who raise idiot children are the reason for the high crime rate, not a singer/song artist.




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting specopssv44: Tiptoegecko, you suck at life. How can you sit there and call Rap Ignorant, if a black dude raps about life as a black dude then none of us can really call it ignorant unless we're black right? Call me ****ing crazy, but last time I checked, video games, rap music, and marilyn manson have nothing to ****ing do with the crime rate, ****ty no brain ****ing parents who raise idiot children are the reason for the high crime rate, not a singer/song artist.



I must now kill myself, since I can find nothing in this post to disagree with.


Quoting Tiptoegecko: 1) Dont tell me to kill myself, its not nice. I live a happy life thank you very much
2) Rap is a joke, there is no talent coming from it. The rappers dont write thier lyrics or beats, it gets hand fed to them and they dont even sing. THEY TALK. I COULD DO THAT FOR CHIRST'S SAKE
3) name me some rap songs that don't include some sort of violence that could easily influence young kids that isnt coming from a white kid named Eminem.

And it isnt a sterotype. Its reality. Time for a wake up call smart one

And I dont perfer it your right. I like music where real talent is in use

+ no hard feelings I hope. This is agrument, lets keep it grown up : )


Did you bother to read ANYTHING I posted earlier? Just because most of the overplayed radio pap you hear is like that doesnt mean that the entire genre as a whole is that way. In fact, what you are saying serves more as an indicator of how little you know of the genre than anything else. You have failed at teh interbutts, so kindly pelase gtfo my message board.



Posted by Tiptoegecko

Ill just say out of this area, since my opinion doesnt get respect. If Im wrong, dont ****ing bash me, correct me with at least a tad bit of respect.


Quoting specopssv44: Tiptoegecko, you suck at life. How can you sit there and call Rap Ignorant, if a black dude raps about life as a black dude then none of us can really call it ignorant unless we're black right? Call me ****ing crazy, but last time I checked, video games, rap music, and marilyn manson have nothing to ****ing do with the crime rate, ****ty no brain ****ing parents who raise idiot children are the reason for the high crime rate, not a singer/song artist.

Look through history. What starts up those fads? 60's-70's, Music created the Hippie. 80's music created Disco and rap is creating "gangsta" kids who think it's ok because their idle rapper is doing it. Rap is just another "fad" and it will die down. And I will give respect to old school rap, like Biggie and Tupac, because they had talent, I will say with pleasure. But today's "rap" (Excpet fro Ridin' by Chamillionare, because thats the best rap song) is nothing like it used to be. I would have more respect for rap today if it kept the tradition of old school rap.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Ill just say out of this area, since my opinion doesnt get respect. If Im wrong, dont ****ing bash me, correct me with at least a tad bit of respect.


It doesn't get respected because, well, go back and read your previous posts. Try not spouting mindless **** like the post LoS' quoted and give us an opinion to respect. And spoilers: this is the internet. Don't act like a ******* trying to sound like you know better than everyone else when you clearly know nothing about the particular subject and maybe you won't get bashed.




Quoted post: 60's-70's, Music created the Hippie.


Some one needs to research said movement better I think.



Posted by specopssv44

]


Quoted post: Ill just say out of this area, since my opinion doesnt get respect. If Im wrong, dont ****ing bash me, correct me with at least a tad bit of respect.


Respect is earned, never givin.... WELCOME TO THE THUNDERDOME BIATCH!!!!


Quoted post: Look through history. What starts up those fads? 60's-70's, Music created the Hippie.


Wrong again, liberals, and POT mixed with the vietnam war created the hippie, the music was a byproduct of the hippies, not the other way around.


Quoted post: rap is creating "gangsta" kids who think it's ok because their idle rapper is doing it.

Oh NO! The end is near!.... I disagree with you man, im a pretty big fan of My Chemical Romance, but theres no way in ****ing hell youll ever catch me with long black hair and mascara on.... I like little john, and DMX, and Ive never created a serious crime. I grew up on classic rock cause thats all my dad listened too, ever listened to the lyrics in some of those songs? Give it a try you might shock yourself.


Quoted post: But today's "rap" (Excpet fro Ridin' by Chamillionare, because thats the best rap song) is nothing like it used to be. I would have more respect for rap today if it kept the tradition of old school rap

Im just gonna throw this out there, but im guessing seince IM not old enough to really rember old school rap, then I assume by "Old SChool", you probably mean like will smith haha... Chill the **** out man, if the "Little Gangstas", had moms and dads that gave a **** there wouldnt be a problem.



Posted by The Judge

The first nigga wanna step
Gonna meet his death
First I hit the nigga wit a right, then I swing a left
Kept on dropping B's after B's till I'm out of breath
Then I took a knife and cut the fool til he bloody wet
Boy you gon respect
Real playaz when it comes to that
Knowin this ain't slavery but nigga we gon hang your neck
How you gonna diss the check writer, hoe I am a threat
Shoot at your ***** *** like the killa know you scared of that, scared of that
Bring it on nigga to this mother****in M-Town
Click click boom then you feel your body fall down
Don't be trippin wit these Hyde Park gangstas
Robbers, killaz, dope boyz, rapists
Gangsta Fred, Heavy C, workin with that maintenance
Cut you up, wrap you up, leave ya *** stankin
Pimp slap ya ***, momma boy, fell the rugar
So ****in sweet, I should probably call you sugar

lol dark brown people




Posted by Arwon

Every time I see this thread I translate it into my head as "do black people cause crime?"




Posted by Lord of Spam

"80's music created Disco"

You will get respect when I am cold and dead.




Posted by The Judge

People are how they are because of how they think. I listen to classical and metal because it inspires my apocalyptic thoughts. People listen to what they like, and it rarely influences people to act differently because of it. While I do admit the lyrics to a fair amount of rap songs make such deplorable behavior seem amiable, I don't think necessarily that it causes crime. It's really down to the people who listen to it. If they're normal, intelligent folk, then no, it shouldn't affect life at all. If it's some dim-witted faggot who "does what 50 cent does because 50 cent is awesome," then yeah, it's gonna make some problems.




Posted by Speedfreak

Music, TV and films influence kids. They influence adults for fuck's sake.

Thread over.




Posted by Fate

*influences impressionable people




Posted by specopssv44


Quoted post: Music, TV and films influence kids. They influence adults for ****'s sake.


I really really like "Boondock Saints"... But I have yet attempted to begin assasinating people I deem evil with the aid of my kid brother and semi-excentric, yet humorous bearded friend.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Who dies. Thank *** your father is a badass.


****ty movie.




Posted by specopssv44


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: Who dies. Thank *** your father is a badass.


****ty movie.


Wow...are you serious? you sir, go straight to hell. If you cant appriciate that movie, then you are worthless.



Posted by Tyler Durden

Boondock Saints isn't instantly a hit with everyone that watches it. It was my third viewing before I started to appreciate the humor and satire within it.. It was a weak Willem Dafoe performance, David Della Rocco hooked me.




Posted by Lord of Spam

the following rap song has caused me to kill 2 prostitutes, rape a priest, and burn down several orphanages:

What’s my name? mc
And what do I do? Rap.
M.D.’s screaming need 50 cc’s of mc stat.
E.R. staff be freakin’ like mariah on the rag.
mc chris squeezin’ contents out of tiny plastic bags.
it’s like hypnotizin’ eyes and gettin’ digits on the pad.
legs seperate like hyphens because mc’s still the mack.
identify the items by the bar code on the tag.
identify the rapper cuz he’s knee deep in the vag.
I got my glocks cocked,
I got my nine’s primed,
I got my crosshairs locked on kelly lebrock’s behind,
I got my lungs locked on chemotherapy kind,
I got more rhyme than shel silverstein and shakespeare combined.

(Chorus)
I sound like a ten year old
or so I’ve been told,
but you don’t need a voice that’s low to make the microphone gold.
other’s claim that they be midas but they got laryngitis,
so wont‘cha kick it with the mc with the voice that’s the highest.
so come on.

what’s my name? mc.
and what do I do? rock.
I’m intimidating jocks
and inseminating socks,
I’m infiltrating flocks of fembots,
high off that hemlock,
mud wrestling bittie buttocks like ox.
let’s knock chucks cuz we can’t afford boots.
let’s get high aka pull tubes.
don’t ask why, just let it all loose,
watch this mike get abused,
watch me change your attitude.
call me gavin, I’m the captain of this carnival cruise.
kathie lee lets me rub my dick on her boobs.
seems tweens in cleavage jeans is many a man’s muse,
all mc needs is just a bucket of booze.
watch me, blow a load on your butt tattoo,
watch me, come back for seconds like it’s chinese food.
no one can hear you scream, cuz it’s a soundproof room.
I’m done, get the **** out, send in number two!

repeat chorus

what’s my name? mc.
and what do I do? roll.
I’m all up in that **** like it’s ****in camel toe.
olsen twins on my dick like it’s a stripper pole.
if you’re hooked on the ****, my middle name is methadone.
so, let’s do this quick so no one will ever know.
mc nice got more ice than a ****in’ eskimo.
he’s not whack nickleback singing songs for michelobe.
jigga man, why you treat me like animal?
at the mall, at the park, rollerink, backyard,
soft hearted bard who makes the hardcore hard.
I weigh a buck fiddy, stand 5.5,
and when I muff dive, you see the ****in fur fly.
don’t own a celly, my sneakers is my ride,
been disgraced, demoted, I been denied.
all my fan mail says someday that I’ll get signed.
mc chris, lower case, no dots, rewind.

repeat chorus




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Boondock Saints isn't instantly a hit with everyone that watches it. It was my third viewing before I started to appreciate the humor and satire within it..


I've seen it a good eight times and got all that. Still wasn't any good.



Posted by mis0

[quote]You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to specopssv44 again.


I never thought I'd actually see specops thoroughly win a thread the way he did here. wtg, bro!




Posted by Skitzo Control

If anybody actually thinks that rap music causes crime, then they're just as idiotic as anybody who thinks movies or video games influences people negatively. There's no evidence to have ever proved it.

If you are influenced, then you are simple-minded and should be shot.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

I liked the part where skitzo said that the concept of thinking music influences other people is idiotic, and then said "if you are influenced by rap music" as to allude that those types of people do exist and contradicting his previous statement. That was funny.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Skitzo Control]If you are influenced, then you are simple-minded and should be shot.

Anything influences anyone of any age positively or negatively.




Posted by Skitzo Control

[quote=Bj Blaskowitz]I liked the part where skitzo said that the concept of thinking music influences other people is idiotic, and then said "if you are influenced by rap music" as to allude that those types of people do exist and contradicting his previous statement. That was funny.
Any individual who can't/won't contribute and benefit society is not a "person," (some exceptions exist) in my book, but since I failed to mention that in my previous post, the contradiction is rather obvious. My apologies.:)
---
Speedy, you complain about me being anal about details, so I'm not even going to point out the irony of your previous statement. Of course everything in your environment affects and influences you, but does it influence a person to commit crime? No.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Skitzo Control;516346] Speedy, you complain about me being anal about details, so I'm not even going to point out the irony of your previous statement. Of course everything in your environment affects and influences you, but does it influence a person to commit crime? No.

Doesn't have to. Making the concept of committing a crime appealing can be enough, poor cirumstance and peer pressure can fill in the blanks quite easily.




Posted by Bebop


Quoting Skitzo Control: If you are influenced, then you are simple-minded and should be shot.



Rap music influences me not to do crime. OH SNAP INFLUENCE! TAHT ITS HUMATING IS OVVaaaarrrr



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Speedfreak: Doesn't have to. Making the concept of committing a crime appealing can be enough, poor cirumstance and peer pressure can fill in the blanks quite easily.


The person still has to decide to commit the act themselves though. you cant get away with hitting someone thats annoying you simply because their annoying behavior influenced you to do it.

most people tend to want to never take any responsibility for their actions, and its sickening. if you dont want to get in trouble for something, dont do it (or at least dont get caught).



Posted by mis0

Hey guys - I just listened to a Gangster Rap™ and I now am overwhelmed with this insatiable urge to destroy the Man's property, rape the Man's women, and gun-down the Man himself. The man will burn, and it's all because of rap!




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

I honestly think that you guys are naive to just how impressionable little kids are. Seriously. I'm not pointing fingers, but the concept of rap music influencing children isn't all that far-fetched.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

completely apathetic. I am zen.




Posted by Degeneration

Of course rap can influence a child. Anyone who doesn't believe that is kiddy-pool shallow. The question is whether they're more likely to commit a crime by listening to it, and the answer is yes.

It depends on a person's mentality to begin with. If you're comfortable with who you are, chances are that song lyrics won't affect your actions. However, everyone goes through a stage at which they determine who they want to be. This is when they take in information from everything they deem "cool", and the ever-popular rap is likely to be high on the list.

Then, some people are just easily influenced in general. If you tell them to do something and they look up to you, they're liable to do it. I'm sure we could all name names. Furthermore, you've got to believe that there are people who, for example, never would've known about certain illegal drugs if they hadn't been introduced to them through rap. Therefore, the concept of doing these drugs was literally unheard of to such people until the lyrics introduced it.

It's not a big problem, though. Most people are too intelligent to take rap seriously in that way. It's dance music. It's glorified techno. People care just as much (or little) about the instrumentals.




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: I honestly think that you guys are naive to just how impressionable little kids are. Seriously. I'm not pointing fingers, but the concept of rap music influencing children isn't all that far-fetched.


so can being exposed to violent movies, violent video games, etc. but that doesnt mean that it gives cart blanche to blame them for society's ills. Bottom line is that someone must still choose to commit a crime.



Posted by Degeneration

Media is obviously not the determining factor. I'm not about to "smoke weed every day" because Nate Dogg told me to.

But say a guy was depressed for whatever reason. Drowning his sorrows in drugs and the like would look a lot more appealing, illegal or not. Hearing something positive about doing them from a popular source could be the push he needs.

Rap doesn't cause crime, but it can certainly have a hand in influencing the decision to commit one.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz


Quoting Lord of Spam: so can being exposed to violent movies, violent video games, etc. but that doesnt mean that it gives cart blanche to blame them for society's ills. Bottom line is that someone must still choose to commit a crime.


yes, yes, yes, and yes. Nobody's blaming it for all of society's problems, they're merely stating that it contributes to the violence. Do I think violent video games contribute to violence? Hell yes, I do. Do I think that justifies ridding the world of them? Hell no, I don't. I loathe hip-hop, but think it should be allowed to continue to suck so long as I'm not forced to listen to it. DO I think it contributes to violence? **** the **** yes, I do, nigga.



Posted by fates warning

rap may not directly contribute to kids saying "oh lets go out and kill some people", but it makes it socially acceptable to do so.

Influences crime? maybe. Influcences stupidity? Most definitely.




Posted by muffla

does violent games influence crime
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/673590/Texans_Prove_Games_Dont_Cause_Violence.html#readmore

i win




Posted by Oforia

Rap Music does not directly influence crime, but it definitely promotes it.




Posted by The Judge


Quoting muffla: does violent games influence crime
http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/673590/Texans_Prove_Games_Dont_Cause_Violence.html#readmore

i win


[quote=Your Source]The study concludes, "(It) appears that news outlets may promote media violence in general, and video game violence specifically as a direct cause of violent behavior. Despite the relatively young and sparse nature of the research on violent video game effects, some researchers have claimed that the evidence is conclusive... Yet a close read of the literature reveals that many of the studies used to support this link provide only questionable or inconsistent evidence."
No factual evidence right there.
[quote=Your Source]There you have it, proof once again that anyone can take anything and twist it to support their cause or world view, often in opposition to logic and sound reasoning.
Ironic.
[quote=Your Source]We want to assure you however that TheFeed would never do a thing like that.
K thanks my mind has been put to rest.

I would like to note that I do not think that video games influence violent behavior, I just don't like stupid arguments.



Posted by misogenie

Rap music with video music of dancing gangsters are ingredients for crime influence. Michael Jackson's Beat It Video hyper-jumped the crimewave.




Posted by Tiptoegecko

Rap:
Retards
Attempting
Poetry

That pretty much sums up rap




Posted by fates warning

There is underground rap music that doesnt promote violence, but the majority of people do not listen to it. The overwhelming majority listens to the "radio rap", which of course, is ALL ****, and yes, it promotes violence and therefore influences crime. It should be noted, however, that the people who commit crimes b/c of rap and whose actions can be influenced by music are all stupid anyway, and would probably commit crimes regardless.

In short, rap music does promote violence and crime, although its easy to arge by posting a list of completely non-influential underground rappers.




Posted by Red

I believe that no music influences people, sure there is actually the occasional person who will go out and commit a crime because of rap, but there's obviously something wrong with them in that case.




Posted by GameMiestro

[quote=Red;555323]I believe that no music influences people, sure there is actually the occasional person who will go out and commit a crime because of rap, but there's obviously something wrong with them in that case.

So, from your point of view, all music is worthless entertainment that has no effect on it's listeners whatsoever? Take a look outside, bud- music has a HUGE influence on people.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I believe that no music influences people


Except for all those musicians that believed so many other bands before him have influenced his music, right?



Posted by Shade

All rap music does is influence a bad taste in music. The rest is just human nature.




Posted by Xenos


Quoted post: I believe that no music influences people


I MUST NOT BE HUMAN.



Posted by Omni

Yeah, music makes me feel and think things. Rap, though I personally dislike most of it, could easily have an influence on people. Look at the hip-hop culture, see bling and gangsta styles for reference, plus the ghetto culture and use of ebonics popularized by rap music. It's very reasonable to assume the views and actions relfected in the lyrics of rap and hip-hop could easily influence impressionable young teenagers. Oh, and this thread is extremely long.

By the way, even just going with what Vampiro mentioned, music influences other musicians to emulate and progress on what was already done by the musicians they were inspired by. Look at the evolution of a singular music style such as rock or R&B, which both share similar origins and influences from blues and even often overlap. Otherwise it would have to be a huge coincidence that so many artists create music that could be classified as the same style.




Posted by Raptor

[quote=Shade]All rap music does is influence a bad taste in music. The rest is just human nature.

Based on what I've seen, I can't say much for your taste in music at all. In fact, I believe it could use a little rap. That might lead to better things, such as you learning not to be such a narrow-minded twat.

I can't remember if I even replied to this topic before or not, but [to possibly reiterate] rap music definitely influences crime. There's no doubt in my mind many "gangstas" out there listen to gangsta rap to get themselves all charged up to go out and cause some trouble.

[quote]rap may not directly contribute to kids saying "oh lets go out and kill some people", but it makes it socially acceptable to do so.

It's socially acceptable to kill people, now? ALL RIGHT!




Posted by Fate

I don't remember if I said this before either, but I'm just going to say that pretty much anything can influence behavior or personality. It doesn't have to be rap music. :/




Posted by Average n00b

Eh..Depends on how much it takes to..'brainwash' the fan of rap music.

I believe that most people are obsessed with money, sex, violence etc. There's always going to be people like that.

So I really don't care that much about the topic of influence, everyone gets influenced by something, good things or bad.




Posted by fates warning


Quoting Raptor: It's socially acceptable to kill people, now? ALL RIGHT!


Legally, no. But someone is going to be demonized for murder much less than they would have before rap music. These rappers are saying that "bustin a cap" is a method of problem solving.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: But someone is going to be demonized for murder much less than they would have before rap music.


... no. Our society has just become desensitized to it. Which is why the lyrical content of rap goes unabated for the most part. It's a result of our society, rather than our society resulting from it.



Posted by Oforia

Like I said before, Rap music does not influence violence. It just promotes it. Promoting does not mean that it causes people to go bezerk and start killing people. Like Vamp said, our society has become desensitized it. There is no question that rap promotes violence, but in my opinion, it doesn't change the way people act one way or another. It may influence some people, but those people are looking to be influenced. It's not like it was involuntary. When I was in school, many kids were influenced by rap. I am not saying that it doesn't influence people. Many black kids speak ebonics all the time, and sag their pants almost to their ankles. This behavior probably does come from the hip-hop community; however, I would not go as far to say that rap directly influences violence. However, it may be possible that the behaviors rap does influence (sagging, speaking ebonics, etc.) may eventually evolve to violence.




Posted by fates warning


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: ... no. Our society has just become desensitized to it. Which is why the lyrical content of rap goes unabated for the most part. It's a result of our society, rather than our society resulting from it.


yeah, that was actually what I was trying to say, just didnt have the right words.



Posted by Jarulara

Rap Music doesn't influence nothing unless they say "Go out get your gun go shoot those kids at Columbine".......look here rappers usually are just talking about their life before rap...some lie..even rappers say rappers lie....whatever sells sells....but most rap now talks about dancing and selling drugs. Which is horrible rap but thats mainstream. I like more of a deep hip hop like Nas and Canibus and stuff. Their more into talking about lets battle or whats wrong with the world. But no rap music does not influence no one....people do dumb ish either because their mentally ill, crazy, don't care, or have no moral conscience. And if you have to point fingers point them at parents and the people who don't try and teach them. PAY THE TEACHERS LAWYER MONEY THEN WE MIGHT HAVE BETTER TEACHERS!.....my opinion only...




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Rap Music doesn't influence nothing unless they say "Go out get your gun go shoot those kids at Columbine"


No... that's not exactly how it works.



Posted by Omni

[QUOTE=Jarulara;567890]But no rap music does not influence no one.

Triple negative?

Young kids are often very impressionable and will sometimes do things if the singers or celebrities they like do them or talk about doing them. Sometimes this just means that they wear the same clothes or other harmless things like that, but it can mean they commit acts of violence because the rappers they like talk about shooting people and committing crimes as a means of problem solving.




Posted by netman

I absolutely believe rap has an influence on the people who listen. Is it a big one? No. But it's definitely there.. I've notice a big source of lyrics in the rap scene is about crime/etc. Thats not to say its a bad genre, as there's some rap I definitely enjoy.

I also like to think that Ice Ice Baby caused a big crime wave in the early 90s.




Posted by Jarulara


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: No... that's not exactly how it works.


Okay maybe not exactly like that but if someone says....."Get ya gun go have fun kill this guy you'll be fly" don't you think it would have some effect on poorly educated kids?...People who think rap stars live their lyrics?..


Quoting netman: I absolutely believe rap has an influence on the people who listen. Is it a big one? No. But it's definitely there.. I've notice a big source of lyrics in the rap scene is about crime/etc. Thats not to say its a bad genre, as there's some rap I definitely enjoy.


I agree with the first part but a big sources of lyrics in the rap scene is not about crime..... First off lets say out of a 100% of mainstream rap...70% is about grills, flashiness, jewelry, dancing, and other stuff rich people like when they become rich. 20% is about crime. 10% is about real life..true to heart stuff.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Okay maybe not exactly like that but if someone says....."Get ya gun go have fun kill this guy you'll be fly" don't you think it would have some effect on poorly educated kids?...People who think rap stars live their lyrics?..


No, see, you said it has to be, more or less, a direct order to kill someone to actually be an influence. I said no, because, well, that's not how it works.



Posted by PROF CHAOS

The only way somebody can be influenced into crime is an idle mind. If a person is interested in something constructive, nothing can influence them.




Posted by MarioStar

Rap definitely Influences people along with almost every thing else in the media. I see "ghetto" kids every day say stuff that they dont even understand becuase they herd it in music they listen to. And can you honestly say youve never seen a kid who says hes in a gang when you know that hes lyin his *** off. They dont say that cuz they want protection orthey want to accualy be in a gang. They say that cuz they herd it in music and there tryin to be "cool" or tough when they just look stupid. Im not sayin alot of people are or arnt influenced im just saying some definitely are.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: nothing can influence them.


You're constantly influenced as a human being. Can't be avoided.



Posted by PROF CHAOS

I should of written that differently. What I meant to say if a person is interested in something constructive, they would, most of the time, be influenced by constructive things. They would not have much time for other things.




Posted by mis0

That's a more accurate statement. That's part of the reason parents put their kids in so many after school activities... to try to keep them from doing anything bad in otherwise unsupervised hours. Most children are fairly easily influenced, though, as is evidenced by the effects of peer pressure. And if their peers are pressuring them to do drugs/drink/have sex, then I'm sure some will cave and do it.

As far as murder goes, that obviously is an extreme and is incredibly uncommon. I think that the music is more of an effect than a cause - anyone who was in public school probably has either seen or felt peer pressure and that is what causes otherwise good children to do bad things. I'm sure they end up identifying with crude songs once they've done crude things, though.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Mm, it's not murder or necessarily the idea of murder that's being fed to them, rather violence in general and the open acceptance of it, not necessarily the glorification of it however. It's a completely different culture that ends up sending mixed messages with one of the few clear messages being violence or a code of conduct that's probably not appropriate within society. A crude mind will likely find solace in crude songs, thus being more open to do crude things when given a certain sense of comfort. So, I wouldn't say rap influences crime, but it gives the listener room to move down a criminal's path, often comforting and cradling the ideas with openness about the subject. If that makes sense.




Posted by Shade

this whole thread is LOL




Posted by Jesse Smith

Rap music influences crime way more than video games does!!!




Posted by Last Fog

Crime life influences rap, not the other way around.




Posted by #061402

Jesse, this thread is SO 2007.




Posted by misogenie

Rap music glorifies crime like a pair of new designer jeans. Dancing instead fighting is the new 'crimewave' of today. Crimewave means to me spreading the love of hiphop culture everywhere like Jesus Christ healing those infected with the spiritual disease of crime.:cool:




Posted by Omni


Quoting Last Fog: Crime life influences rap, not the other way around.


Young kids who listen to rap idolize the rappers and the crimes they sing about committing. Testimony from these types of young offenders corroborates this. It isn't the only factor, but to deny its influence is fairly na



Posted by Red

[QUOTE=Omni;934496]Young kids who listen to rap idolize the rappers and the crimes they sing about committing. Testimony from these types of young offenders corroborates this. It isn't the only factor, but to deny its influence is fairly na




Posted by Omni

I didn't say that the artists did it intentionally or can be blamed for it. I said that their music influenced it.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Fun fact: study done found out that people with low IQ were more likely to listen to lil' wayne. it's not the fault of the music, it's the fact that the fans are already idiots.




Posted by junior senior

lil wayne sucks his voice is annoying and he looks like a blackface




Posted by bramwellbear123

rap :O you mean crap lol