David Jeffe has seen the light...




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote]Certain SPOnG staffers were huge fan




Posted by Fate

Newsflash: Jaffe's been cool for a while now. It took this for you to see it?




Posted by TendoAddict

The artical kinda confuses me.

He wants to create a game with true emotion and purity but is tired of story.

Is he trying to create a game like tetris that will move the human heart?

Plus his trumpet analogy scares me, and I love analogies.

I think He's saying that describing what he feels to other people through is neer impossible. Games like *** of war dont reflect this, it was a master piece IMO.

But really anything new and revolutionary to the industry is fine by be. I hope he can help sony.

----

[quote]Newsflash: Jaffe's been cool for a while now. It took this for you to see it?


Newflash: Not everything good comes to light asap. Just be glad he found it in the first place.




Posted by Darkbackward


Quoting Speedfreak: David Jeffe is suddenly very very cool to me, his views on games design reflect mine and gaming greats like Miyamoto's almost exactly. Sony better not screw up this guy's ambitions.


Coming from a Nintendo fan? Eeek. Time for you to start using that *** given talent of thinking.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Darkbackward]Coming from a Nintendo fan? Eeek. Time for you to start using that *** given talent of thinking.

What does that even mean, Sir Bumpalot?




Posted by Drewboy64

1.) *** of War was way overrated.
2.) Why did he bump this?




Posted by Darkbackward


Quoting Speedfreak: What does that even mean, Sir Bumpalot?


With the exception of SOE, Sony has some of the best first party/second party developers working for it (excluding guerrila games of course). Sony respects these developers and allows quite a lot of freedom.

Nintendo, on the other hand, manages to whore out its characters in mostly meaningless games that only provide a superficial amount of fun. Exceptions abound, but it's mostly the same junk.

Sony will not ruin David Jaffe. They haven't ruined Naughty Dog, or Fumitsu Ueda. Polyphony Digital is just ruining itself.



Posted by Lord of Spam

I played like half of *** of war. I got tired of mashing buttons to kill things and got bored with it. OTher than that, it seemed like it had an interesting story, but I thought the actual game itself was ****e.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Darkbackward]With the exception of SOE, Sony has some of the best first party/second party developers working for it (excluding guerrila games of course). Sony respects these developers and allows quite a lot of freedom.

Nintendo, on the other hand, manages to whore out its characters in mostly meaningless games that only provide a superficial amount of fun. Exceptions abound, but it's mostly the same junk.

Sony will not ruin David Jaffe. They haven't ruined Naughty Dog, or Fumitsu Ueda. Polyphony Digital is just ruining itself.

Naghty Dog ruined itself, they were always a C-class developer. Polyphony Digital I don't blame, there's only so much you can do creatively with a racing sim.

As for the amount of freedom Nintendo give it's upper-tier designers, they literally get to do what they want. No one ordered Rare to create a James Bond game then create a 3D platformer followed by a TPS, it was all them. Animal Crossing was the brainchild of it's creator, not a board meeting. WarioWare was an experiment in R&D1 turned into a full product. Shigeru Miyamoto doesn't even need demos or full game designs to get his projects greenlighted.

As for any whoring out that's going on, do explain. So many people using that term in a wide variety of meanings, from any sequel to a mere spinoff. Personally I only regard it as whoring out when characters are placed into quite literally shovelware, like Bomberman Kart or Act Zero.




Posted by Fate

I don't think Sony will ruin Jaffe. He's been in since Twisted Metal. He's not going anywhere for some time. :/




Posted by Aioros


Quoting Speedfreak: Naghty Dog ruined itself, they were always a C-class developer.

[COLOR="Yellow"]How exactly did Naughty Dog ruin itself?[/COLOR]



Posted by Darkbackward


Quoting Speedfreak: Naghty Dog ruined itself, they were always a C-class developer. Polyphony Digital I don't blame, there's only so much you can do creatively with a racing sim..


Polyphonal Digital messed up their motorcycle game and are remaking Gran Turismo 4. Polyphonal is pretty much dead to me.

Naughty Dog is a great developer.


Quoting Speedfreak:
As for the amount of freedom Nintendo give it's upper-tier designers, they literally get to do what they want. No one ordered Rare to create a James Bond game then create a 3D platformer followed by a TPS, it was all them. Animal Crossing was the brainchild of it's creator, not a board meeting. WarioWare was an experiment in R&D1 turned into a full product. Shigeru Miyamoto doesn't even need demos or full game designs to get his projects greenlighted..


That's good to know. Still doesnt' account for the mostly wasted spinoffs flying about.


Quoting Speedfreak:
As for any whoring out that's going on, do explain. So many people using that term in a wide variety of meanings, from any sequel to a mere spinoff. Personally I only regard it as whoring out when characters are placed into quite literally shovelware, like Bomberman Kart or Act Zero.


Whoring out does not mean stuff like Pikmin or Animal Crossing. It means the massive amount of spinoffs that Nintendo publishes. Sony has yet to do anything like that.

The point being that Sony respects its developers, so you can't say that Sony would ruin its developers over Nintendo, who has a bunch of cash cow products.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Darkbackward]Polyphonal Digital messed up their motorcycle game and are remaking Gran Turismo 4. Polyphonal is pretty much dead to me.

Naughty Dog is a great developer.



That's good to know. Still doesnt' account for the mostly wasted spinoffs flying about.



Whoring out does not mean stuff like Pikmin or Animal Crossing. It means the massive amount of spinoffs that Nintendo publishes. Sony has yet to do anything like that.

The point being that Sony respects its developers, so you can't say that Sony would ruin its developers over Nintendo, who has a bunch of cash cow products.

Hang on, this is clearly bull, put things into perspective here. Sony has yet to do anything because Sony has only recently acquired all of it's developers, Nintendo has been making it's own games for 25 bloody years. But it certainly has had a major influence on ONE developer, Squaresoft. Care to count the number of Final Fantasy 7 games, spinoffs and movies recently? Give Sony a chance and they'll "whore out" their franchises too.

And Naughty Dog is an abysmal developer.




Posted by Aioros


Quoting Aioros: [COLOR="Yellow"]How exactly did Naughty Dog ruin itself?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DimGray"]still waiting.[/COLOR]



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Aioros][COLOR=dimgray]still waiting.[/COLOR]

By generally ripping off other platformers to create their travesties. They don't even have any sense of momentum for G[COLOR=lightgreen]o[/COLOR]d's sake, 2D platformers have had that since the late 80s. Every sequel they make is pretty much identical to the last game with cookie-cutter extras and a more X-TREME edge. They're good at what they do, but they're hardly the platforming masters people make them out to be, and certainly haven't ever added anything meaningful to the genre.




Posted by Fate

The only thing I see whored out from Sony is Final Fantasy, to tell you the truth. :/




Posted by Speedfreak

Exactly, and that's the only thing Sony have had the chance to whore out. Give them 5 minutes and they'll "whore out" their other franchises too, they've only just bought all these developers.

But to be perfectly honest, I don't see anything wrong with it. I didn't go mental over Sonic Battle or Sonic Heroes, Metal Gear Acid seems like an interesting new direction and Mario Golf Advance got me into a sport I didn't even know I liked. If it plays well then it's not a cheap shot, in my opinion.




Posted by Aioros


Quoting Speedfreak: By generally ripping off other platformers to create their travesties. They don't even have any sense of momentum for G[COLOR=lightgreen]o[/COLOR]d's sake, 2D platformers have had that since the late 80s. Every sequel they make is pretty much identical to the last game with cookie-cutter extras and a more X-TREME edge. They're good at what they do, but they're hardly the platforming masters people make them out to be, and certainly haven't ever added anything meaningful to the genre.

[COLOR="Yellow"]In other words they make good 3D platformer games, they're just not that innovative. I'd say that's about right, they're contributing with games that are fun to play ,they're just not breaking any genre boundaries. But they're not ruining themselves by any stretch of the word. If it plays well it's all good, right?

But that new PS3 game they're working on does seem to suggest they're trying new things, unless the game turns out to be another platformer. But even if it did it'll still be a good game knowing Naughty Dog.[/COLOR]



Posted by Speedfreak

Not exploring new gameplay + tiresome X-treme image + only being okay = bad developer, in my books. They're mediocre and aren't trying to be anything else, screw 'em.




Posted by Bebop

Naughty Dog made Jak and Daxter right? The mere thought of those awful characters in that average game makes me want to rape babies.

Then again everything makes me want to rape babies.
HI-OOOO!!!




Posted by Darkbackward


Quoting Speedfreak: By generally ripping off other platformers to create their travesties. They don't even have any sense of momentum for G[COLOR=lightgreen]o[/COLOR]d's sake, 2D platformers have had that since the late 80s. Every sequel they make is pretty much identical to the last game with cookie-cutter extras and a more X-TREME edge. They're good at what they do, but they're hardly the platforming masters people make them out to be, and certainly haven't ever added anything meaningful to the genre.



Crash Bandicoot (along with Spyro, Mario) was one of the pioneering 3D platformer games. Sonic's *** method was still in infancy and they helped to foster growth. They weren't the first, but they certainly were important. I"ll admit it that the later games got a bit stale, most of which is the stuff that Naughty Dog didn't devleop, but they were right there making great AND innovative games from the start.

Also, The Jak and Daxter series have NOT just been updates, they've been completely different game to game, each offering a wholly unique product each time. To say that they are just updates proves your an ignorant fanboy who hasn't really played them or appreciated them.

You've essentially proved that you haven't played any more than five minutes of each game and you have no clue as to what the hell you're talking about. The platformers on the PS2 have seemlessly blended action gameplay with platforming gameplay to great effect. Both the Ratchet and Clank series and the Jak series have been games that have carved out their piece of the gaming world and represented themselves in a nice fashion.

Updates? You're ignorant, Speedfreak, and your statements put the red all over your hands.



Posted by Darkbackward


Quoting Speedfreak: Hang on, this is clearly bull, put things into perspective here. Sony has yet to do anything because Sony has only recently acquired all of it's developers, Nintendo has been making it's own games for 25 bloody years. But it certainly has had a major influence on ONE developer, Squaresoft. Care to count the number of Final Fantasy 7 games, spinoffs and movies recently? Give Sony a chance and they'll "whore out" their franchises too.


I'll be waiting, but I don't think Sony could whore out the amount of crap that Nintendo does if they tried. Nintendo is the king in that regard, and it's good business, but bad for creativity. (though I'm sure you'll defend the repetitive "gimmick" courts in Mario Tennis to your last breath)


Quoting Speedfreak:
And Naughty Dog is an abysmal developer.


WRONG



Posted by Bebop

Any man who says Crash and Spyro were one of the poionerring 3D Platformers is an idiot. At best Naughty Dog creates above average games. These are: The First Crash Bandicoot.




Posted by Speedfreak

Crash Bandicoot didn't invent jack s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, what the f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]ck are you talking about? It plays like half-arsed Super Mario Bros 3D port without any sense of momentum.

Of course Sony couldn't "whore out" as much games as Nintendo if they tried. SONY COULDN'T PRODUCE AS MUCH GAMES AS NINTENDO IF THEY TRIED, PERIOD.

But go on, keep comparing apples to oranges and throwing the Mario Tennis thing in my face. I'll only point you in the direction of FIVE FINAL FANTASY 7 PROJECTS IN THE SPACE OF 3 YEARS.

Not that we were talking about Ratchet and Clank, but if you insist...

- Since the original's release there's been 1 Ratchet and Clank game a year until 2005, that is to say 1 game a year for 4 years straight.
- There's also 1 mobile phone game out (all mobile phone games are s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, no exceptions, so it's clearly whoring out).
- There are a further 3 titles in development, one for PS3, one for PSP and another poor excuse for a game on mobile phones.

Now, you're not going to tell me that 2 poor mobile phone conversions are any better than A SINGLE SEQUEL THAT'S ACTUALLY DECENT. Neither are you going to tell me that 8 games in 6 years, all being the same genre, isn't whoring out when several different games that just happen to use the same mascot are.




Posted by Pit

What's wrong with the Jak games and the Ratchet games?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Cell phones have a lot of great games =/




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro]Cell phones have a lot of great games =/

Lies. Filthy, stinking lies.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

:D Maybe. But my friend loves them and the ones I've tried have actually been pretty good. They're lame considering I own pretty much every portable but no cellphone, but hey, they're fun.




Posted by Darkbackward

My original post got VBed to the graveyard, I'll try to replicate as much as I could here.


Quoting Speedfreak: Crash Bandicoot didn't invent jack s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, what the f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]ck are you talking about? It plays like half-arsed Super Mario Bros 3D port without any sense of momentum.


All 3D games in the 90's helped to foster growth in that area. To try and find a number of "innovations" in each game is a fruitless task, but Crash Bandicoot was certainly not a SMB port.

Quoting Speedfreak:
Of course Sony couldn't "whore out" as much games as Nintendo if they tried. SONY COULDN'T PRODUCE AS MUCH GAMES AS NINTENDO IF THEY TRIED, PERIOD.


Angry fanboys need to calm down.

Quoting Speedfreak:
But go on, keep comparing apples to oranges and throwing the Mario Tennis thing in my face. I'll only point you in the direction of FIVE FINAL FANTASY 7 PROJECTS IN THE SPACE OF 3 YEARS.


Why is Final Fantasy VII whoring linked to Sony? Please tell me of their involvement in the series.

Quoting Speedfreak:
Not that we were talking about Ratchet and Clank, but if you insist...

- Since the original's release there's been 1 Ratchet and Clank game a year until 2005, that is to say 1 game a year for 4 years straight.
- There's also 1 mobile phone game out (all mobile phone games are s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, no exceptions, so it's clearly whoring out).
- There are a further 3 titles in development, one for PS3, one for PSP and another poor excuse for a game on mobile phones.

Now, you're not going to tell me that 2 poor mobile phone conversions are any better than A SINGLE SEQUEL THAT'S ACTUALLY DECENT. Neither are you going to tell me that 8 games in 6 years, all being the same genre, isn't whoring out when several different games that just happen to use the same mascot are.


Let's set some things straight:

A. The Cell Phone game market is different than the console market. The Cell phone games are handled by a different developer with what I'd imagine a bit different gameplay due to the limitations and portability of the platform. Also, your generalization of cell phone games shows your vast ignorance and idiocy. Snake is an awesome game, and there have been several awesome Tetris ports. In any case, to generalize as you do is a mistake, and it hurts you later on....

B. Ratchet and Clank PS3 is NOT in development. The video shown was a TECH DEMO created to show off the power of the PS3 and let the world know that Insomniac was going to stay with its series. Ratchet and Clank PS3 will ONLY be done by Insomniac, and it will ONLY start development after Resistance is launched.

C. To call Ratchet and Clank the "same" because they are all in the same genre is ridiculous. Not because Ratchet: Deadlocked is a full blown action game, Not because Up Your arsenal included online play and was a hybridized action/platformer, Not because Going Commando completely uplifted the series from collection to weapon play, and not because the original was a traditional platformer but because each game has been unique in the series.

Would you call the original SMB series the same just becuase they were in the same genre (even though, as I've pointed out, not all Ratchet and Clank games are in the same genre)? Calling the Ratchet and Clank series the same is MUCH more ludicrous than that.

There are people who love some, and hate others. Generally it's more of a lovable feeling because Insomniac just makes great games but each person has their favorites.

To answer your last part: Yes, it is very different to have a game series that progresses from game to game, never being merely updates than it is to put out the same character in various different genres that cash in on easy to get into gameplay.

So it is MUCH worse to have a game character flying around on several different games with varying values, almost all of them having repetition as one, than having a series that is mostly handled by one main developer on one main platform series (the platform being the console opposed to the cell phone or handheld). The former is whoring to an annoying degree, and the latter is really doing the right thing.

Insomniac is fulfilling the promise of Mario NES. No annoying spinoffs, just great games that progress in each sequel. The Cell phone games and the PSP game are different platforms, utilizing each platform's strengths.

Also, please stop swearing, it makes you seem really immature. I understand you're a Nintendo fanboy, but let's just stop the childish nonsense.



Posted by Speedfreak

I realised you're not even supporting your own arguement halfway through, so if you want to avoid the nitpicking and get down to the real crux of what I'm saying, look out for these "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[quote=Darkbackward]All 3D games in the 90's helped to foster growth in that area. To try and find a number of "innovations" in each game is a fruitless task, but Crash Bandicoot was certainly not a SMB port.

Ha, now who's generalising? "All 3D games in the 90s were groundbreaking", my foot.

It's not hard at all to count the number of innovations in Crash Bandicoot because it's presicely zero. I never said Crash was a SMB port, merely a SMB ripoff. The use of the 3rd dimension is juat about all it has going for it, which isn't saying much considering every developer in the world was going for it at the time, and it's a far cry from the free-roaming worlds of Mario 64.
Sony fans just like to pretend that platformers like Crash, Spyro and Croc were amazing because otherwise they would have had literally nothing to compare to games like Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie or Jet Force Gemini. And let's face it, they didn't anyway, all those games were ridiculously rigid and devoid of any true innovation.


[quote=Darkbackward]Angry fanboys need to calm down.

Stupid fanboys need to come up with a counterpoint or risk making it painfully obvious that they actually can't come up with one.

[quote=Darkbackward]Why is Final Fantasy VII whoring linked to Sony? Please tell me of their involvement in the series.

Sony have owned a significant share of the Final Fantasy series for the last 10 years. Ring any bells? That's why Nintendo had to create a safehouse for Square devlopers to create games for Gamecube and now DS and Wii. It's also why there's absolutely nothing stopping Enix titles appearing on Nintendo systems.

[quote=Darkbackward]A. The Cell Phone game market is different than the console market. The Cell phone games are handled by a different developer with what I'd imagine a bit different gameplay due to the limitations and portability of the platform. Also, your generalization of cell phone games shows your vast ignorance and idiocy. Snake is an awesome game, and there have been several awesome Tetris ports. In any case, to generalize as you do is a mistake, and it hurts you later on....

Snake is an "awesome game" for twelve minutes when you are so ridiculously bored that you're quite happy to resort to playing a mobile phone game. There are far better games on the original GameBoy than Snake, and the GameBoy was a much less powerful system with less buttons to work with, not to mention no colour and a much smaller storage medium. Other problems also plague mobile phones as a game playing device, the input device is irregular and generally absolutely abysmal and most of them run on Java, which make them chug along at about 12 frames per second, if that. Lastly, they pale in comparison to any other portable games device, no one in their right mind would pick the vast majority of mobile phone games (be honest here, the one thing we can agree on is that they're all quick cash-ins, surely?) over a GBA, DS or PSP.

[quote=Darkbackward]B. Ratchet and Clank PS3 is NOT in development. The video shown was a TECH DEMO created to show off the power of the PS3 and let the world know that Insomniac was going to stay with its series. Ratchet and Clank PS3 will ONLY be done by Insomniac, and it will ONLY start development after Resistance is launched.

It's in the planning stages, to be released in 2007. That's in development enough for me, I'm only concerned about when it's released.

[quote=Darkbackward]C. To call Ratchet and Clank the "same" because they are all in the same genre is ridiculous. Not because Ratchet: Deadlocked is a full blown action game, Not because Up Your arsenal included online play and was a hybridized action/platformer, Not because Going Commando completely uplifted the series from collection to weapon play, and not because the original was a traditional platformer but because each game has been unique in the series.

I didn't say all the games were the same, let's get that straight. I said they're all in the same genre. The crticism I levelled at it was that there were so many in such a short space of time, one a year. That's a ridiculous amount for one development team, output like that is only matched by EAs Madden and FIFA teams. See where I'm going with this? I think EA is the whore of the industry, most people agree with that, and Insomniac are doing just what they do.

[quote=Darkbackward]Would you call the original SMB series the same just becuase they were in the same genre (even though, as I've pointed out, not all Ratchet and Clank games are in the same genre)? Calling the Ratchet and Clank series the same is MUCH more ludicrous than that.

There were 4 Super Mario Bros games in a space of six years, followed by one 3D Mario game per generation for the last 2 generations and a 5th SMB recently. That's 7 games fitting 2 genres in about 21 years, compared to 8 Ratchet and Clank platformers in 8 years.

One of those is a sequel factory, one of those is a spinoff factory. I think a spinoff factory is slightly better because it allows the original dev team to take their time with the root series aswell as creating new experiences for players with the same character and universe.

At any rate, my point is they're both clearly sellouts. Welcome to the industry, son.

Honestly, what do you think Sony would do if they happened to have the most popular videogames character in the world under their belt? Mario is the exception to the norm whatever context you put him in, so I think it's highly unfair to use him as a classic example of anything in any arguement.

[quote=Darkbackward]There are people who love some, and hate others. Generally it's more of a lovable feeling because Insomniac just makes great games but each person has their favorites.

Same goes for all the different Mario titles. Oh that's right, it doesn't work both ways because it's Nintendo.

[quote=Darkbackward]To answer your last part: Yes, it is very different to have a game series that progresses from game to game, never being merely updates than it is to put out the same character in various different genres that cash in on easy to get into gameplay.

So it is MUCH worse to have a game character flying around on several different games with varying values, almost all of them having repetition as one, than having a series that is mostly handled by one main developer on one main platform series (the platform being the console opposed to the cell phone or handheld). The former is whoring to an annoying degree, and the latter is really doing the right thing.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From here on in I've decided that Mario isn't a fitting example, no matter how easy it is to argue his case. Being the most popular gaming franchise in the history of the world makes him an exception to the rule. Every company has their most popular franchise, everyone whores them out. It's ridiculous that you only ever use Mario as an example for Nintendo's business practises when you can't honestly say any company would do any different.

Care to comment on Nintendo's whoring out of Zelda, F-Zero, Metroid, Wave Race, 1080, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Starfox, WarioWare, Pikmin, Chibo Robo, Super Smash Brothers, Nintendogs or Animal Crossing?

Oh wait, what about Pokémon? Well tough s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, that's the 2nd most popular franchise in the world, therefore also an exception to the norm. It doesn't even have that many spinoffs anyway, considering the size of the thing. Your arguement is that Nintendo whores out ALL its characters, so I want to see your arguement for that. Not how it whores out the 2 most popular gaming franchises on the planet, which is utterly without blame considering the games are still good and no other company in the world wouldn't do what they do if they could.

[quote=Darkbackward]Insomniac is fulfilling the promise of Mario NES. No annoying spinoffs, just great games that progress in each sequel. The Cell phone games and the PSP game are different platforms, utilizing each platform's strengths.

Nintendo don't force you to buy spinoffs, nor have they stopped creating new games in the main series. You lose.




Posted by Big Boss


Quoting TendoAddict: The artical kinda confuses me.

He wants to create a game with true emotion and purity but is tired of story.

Is he trying to create a game like tetris that will move the human heart?

Plus his trumpet analogy scares me, and I love analogies.

I think He's saying that describing what he feels to other people through is neer impossible. Games like *** of war dont reflect this, it was a master piece IMO.


Here's what I believe Jaffe was saying. He doesn't want to just achieve emotion through games, but wants to use the characteristic that makes games unique (interactivity) as the primary vehicle for emotional stimuli. He feels that there are cases, such as in some epic games, where the emotional factor only comes through the story. That's something movies do, but what makes games unique from other media is the ability of the user to interact with them. Thus, finding a way to make an emotional experience purely for its gameplay/ interactive merits would be truly taking advantage of what games can offer, and simultaneously setting it apart from other forms of entertainment like books and movies in a positive light.

Surely, games like G[color=yellowgreen]o
d of War and Metal Gear Solid have touched on this, but I believe Jaffe wants it to be the focal point of a game, and I'm assuming that's what his PSP project is trying to be.[/color]




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Big Boss]od of War and Metal Gear Solid have touched on this, but I believe Jaffe wants it to be the focal point of a game, and I'm assuming that's what his PSP project is trying to be.[/color]


This clear things up for me, I get what he means now.

Now I push him to do this, emotion doesnt need cutscences. Its much like the great story games before 5 minute movies between levels. You felt the mood just by playing, not because some one told you to feel it.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Big Boss][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=yellowgreen]Surely, games like G[COLOR=yellowgreen]o[/COLOR]d of War and Metal Gear Solid have touched on this, but I believe Jaffe wants it to be the focal point of a game, and I'm assuming that's what his PSP project is trying to be.[/COLOR][/FONT]

I don't know about GoW, but surely MGS ridicules this ideal for the most part? What with it's plentiful supply of expertly casted, acted and directed cut-scenes used to describe the story.




Posted by Fate

In MGS there was a point in the game where you had to kill your war friend in a scene-like thing. It probably wouldn't have meant much to those who didn't know the character that died, but you couldn't go on in the game unless he died. In RE4, the scenes were interactive. I think that's what he means by "touching" on it.

In Katamari Damacy, there weren't any scenes except for those strange kids; the story wasn't the driving point in the game, it was the game itself. I felt really sad when I didn't meet the expectations of the level. I think that's what Jaffe wants to do.




Posted by Big Boss


Quoting Speedfreak: I don't know about GoW, but surely MGS ridicules this ideal for the most part? What with it's plentiful supply of expertly casted, acted and directed cut-scenes used to describe the story.


MGS doesn't rely merely on cutscenes to bring emotion to the player. One example is the prelude to the Psycho Mantis battle, in which Snake's partner Meryl is forced by Mantis to point her gun at Snake and kill him. As Snake, you must find a way to take her out without killing her, which means hurting Meryl. This trick is used again during battle, and it adds a level of frustration and worry as you're trying to win the fight while saving a friend that's trying to kill you. Further in the game, when Snake and Meryl run into Sniper Wolf, Meryl is shot by Wolf right in front of your eyes. As Snake, you can choose to get close to her and save her, as you can see she's in a lot of pain... but you can't, because Wolf will shoot if you get close to Meryl. You're forced to leave her behind and look for a sniper rifle way back in the base as Meryl is lying in a pool of blood right under Wolf's line of sight.

Another example would be the torture scene, in which Ocelot will continue to torture Snake until he gives up the information Foxhound (the terrorists) need. You go through a session of torture in which you must press the X button rapidly to keep Snake from giving up, and then you get a small rest in your cell. You can try to escape during the break, and you can fail and end up repeating the cycle more than a couple of times (each time there's new dialogue between Ocelot and Snake during torture, not merely a loop). Giving up the information means you won't be thrown into the torture chamber again, so you can focus all your efforts on escaping the cell. However, you find out the fatal consequences of your cowardice later on when Snake is fighting Liquid, which engulfs the player with a feeling of guilt.

The MGS series has evolved since that first game, so cutscenes and gameplay are blended together even more for the emotional impact of the game. Still, Jaffe talks about cutscenes being the only emotional venue for some games, and games not using gameplay for emotional impact, but MGS uses both gameplay and cutscenes to give the player an emotional ride. The thought of using gameplay alone as a venue for strong emotional stimuli is something we have yet to see in full force (unless you have a very vivid imagination to the point of making a Pac-Man game a tearfest), so that's what I believe Jaffe will focus his efforts on.




Posted by Speedfreak

I think you may be right, I just had a heck a lot of completely non-emotional responses to these situations. I tend to play MGS games "wrong" anyway.