[quote]Certain SPOnG staffers were huge fan
Newsflash: Jaffe's been cool for a while now. It took this for you to see it?
The artical kinda confuses me.
He wants to create a game with true emotion and purity but is tired of story.
Is he trying to create a game like tetris that will move the human heart?
Plus his trumpet analogy scares me, and I love analogies.
I think He's saying that describing what he feels to other people through is neer impossible. Games like *** of war dont reflect this, it was a master piece IMO.
But really anything new and revolutionary to the industry is fine by be. I hope he can help sony.
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[quote]Newsflash: Jaffe's been cool for a while now. It took this for you to see it?
Newflash: Not everything good comes to light asap. Just be glad he found it in the first place.
[quote=Darkbackward]Coming from a Nintendo fan? Eeek. Time for you to start using that *** given talent of thinking.
What does that even mean, Sir Bumpalot?
1.) *** of War was way overrated.
2.) Why did he bump this?
I played like half of *** of war. I got tired of mashing buttons to kill things and got bored with it. OTher than that, it seemed like it had an interesting story, but I thought the actual game itself was ****e.
[quote=Darkbackward]With the exception of SOE, Sony has some of the best first party/second party developers working for it (excluding guerrila games of course). Sony respects these developers and allows quite a lot of freedom.
Nintendo, on the other hand, manages to whore out its characters in mostly meaningless games that only provide a superficial amount of fun. Exceptions abound, but it's mostly the same junk.
Sony will not ruin David Jaffe. They haven't ruined Naughty Dog, or Fumitsu Ueda. Polyphony Digital is just ruining itself.
Naghty Dog ruined itself, they were always a C-class developer. Polyphony Digital I don't blame, there's only so much you can do creatively with a racing sim.
As for the amount of freedom Nintendo give it's upper-tier designers, they literally get to do what they want. No one ordered Rare to create a James Bond game then create a 3D platformer followed by a TPS, it was all them. Animal Crossing was the brainchild of it's creator, not a board meeting. WarioWare was an experiment in R&D1 turned into a full product. Shigeru Miyamoto doesn't even need demos or full game designs to get his projects greenlighted.
As for any whoring out that's going on, do explain. So many people using that term in a wide variety of meanings, from any sequel to a mere spinoff. Personally I only regard it as whoring out when characters are placed into quite literally shovelware, like Bomberman Kart or Act Zero.
I don't think Sony will ruin Jaffe. He's been in since Twisted Metal. He's not going anywhere for some time. :/
[quote=Darkbackward]Polyphonal Digital messed up their motorcycle game and are remaking Gran Turismo 4. Polyphonal is pretty much dead to me.
Naughty Dog is a great developer.
That's good to know. Still doesnt' account for the mostly wasted spinoffs flying about.
Whoring out does not mean stuff like Pikmin or Animal Crossing. It means the massive amount of spinoffs that Nintendo publishes. Sony has yet to do anything like that.
The point being that Sony respects its developers, so you can't say that Sony would ruin its developers over Nintendo, who has a bunch of cash cow products.
Hang on, this is clearly bull, put things into perspective here. Sony has yet to do anything because Sony has only recently acquired all of it's developers, Nintendo has been making it's own games for 25 bloody years. But it certainly has had a major influence on ONE developer, Squaresoft. Care to count the number of Final Fantasy 7 games, spinoffs and movies recently? Give Sony a chance and they'll "whore out" their franchises too.
And Naughty Dog is an abysmal developer.
[quote=Aioros][COLOR=dimgray]still waiting.[/COLOR]
By generally ripping off other platformers to create their travesties. They don't even have any sense of momentum for G[COLOR=lightgreen]o[/COLOR]d's sake, 2D platformers have had that since the late 80s. Every sequel they make is pretty much identical to the last game with cookie-cutter extras and a more X-TREME edge. They're good at what they do, but they're hardly the platforming masters people make them out to be, and certainly haven't ever added anything meaningful to the genre.
The only thing I see whored out from Sony is Final Fantasy, to tell you the truth. :/
Exactly, and that's the only thing Sony have had the chance to whore out. Give them 5 minutes and they'll "whore out" their other franchises too, they've only just bought all these developers.
But to be perfectly honest, I don't see anything wrong with it. I didn't go mental over Sonic Battle or Sonic Heroes, Metal Gear Acid seems like an interesting new direction and Mario Golf Advance got me into a sport I didn't even know I liked. If it plays well then it's not a cheap shot, in my opinion.
Not exploring new gameplay + tiresome X-treme image + only being okay = bad developer, in my books. They're mediocre and aren't trying to be anything else, screw 'em.
Naughty Dog made Jak and Daxter right? The mere thought of those awful characters in that average game makes me want to rape babies.
Then again everything makes me want to rape babies.
HI-OOOO!!!
Any man who says Crash and Spyro were one of the poionerring 3D Platformers is an idiot. At best Naughty Dog creates above average games. These are: The First Crash Bandicoot.
Crash Bandicoot didn't invent jack s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, what the f[COLOR=lightgreen]u[/COLOR]ck are you talking about? It plays like half-arsed Super Mario Bros 3D port without any sense of momentum.
Of course Sony couldn't "whore out" as much games as Nintendo if they tried. SONY COULDN'T PRODUCE AS MUCH GAMES AS NINTENDO IF THEY TRIED, PERIOD.
But go on, keep comparing apples to oranges and throwing the Mario Tennis thing in my face. I'll only point you in the direction of FIVE FINAL FANTASY 7 PROJECTS IN THE SPACE OF 3 YEARS.
Not that we were talking about Ratchet and Clank, but if you insist...
- Since the original's release there's been 1 Ratchet and Clank game a year until 2005, that is to say 1 game a year for 4 years straight.
- There's also 1 mobile phone game out (all mobile phone games are s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, no exceptions, so it's clearly whoring out).
- There are a further 3 titles in development, one for PS3, one for PSP and another poor excuse for a game on mobile phones.
Now, you're not going to tell me that 2 poor mobile phone conversions are any better than A SINGLE SEQUEL THAT'S ACTUALLY DECENT. Neither are you going to tell me that 8 games in 6 years, all being the same genre, isn't whoring out when several different games that just happen to use the same mascot are.
What's wrong with the Jak games and the Ratchet games?
Cell phones have a lot of great games =/
[quote=Vampiro]Cell phones have a lot of great games =/
Lies. Filthy, stinking lies.
:D Maybe. But my friend loves them and the ones I've tried have actually been pretty good. They're lame considering I own pretty much every portable but no cellphone, but hey, they're fun.
My original post got VBed to the graveyard, I'll try to replicate as much as I could here.
I realised you're not even supporting your own arguement halfway through, so if you want to avoid the nitpicking and get down to the real crux of what I'm saying, look out for these "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
[quote=Darkbackward]All 3D games in the 90's helped to foster growth in that area. To try and find a number of "innovations" in each game is a fruitless task, but Crash Bandicoot was certainly not a SMB port.
Ha, now who's generalising? "All 3D games in the 90s were groundbreaking", my foot.
It's not hard at all to count the number of innovations in Crash Bandicoot because it's presicely zero. I never said Crash was a SMB port, merely a SMB ripoff. The use of the 3rd dimension is juat about all it has going for it, which isn't saying much considering every developer in the world was going for it at the time, and it's a far cry from the free-roaming worlds of Mario 64.
Sony fans just like to pretend that platformers like Crash, Spyro and Croc were amazing because otherwise they would have had literally nothing to compare to games like Mario 64, Banjo Kazooie or Jet Force Gemini. And let's face it, they didn't anyway, all those games were ridiculously rigid and devoid of any true innovation.
[quote=Darkbackward]Angry fanboys need to calm down.
Stupid fanboys need to come up with a counterpoint or risk making it painfully obvious that they actually can't come up with one.
[quote=Darkbackward]Why is Final Fantasy VII whoring linked to Sony? Please tell me of their involvement in the series.
Sony have owned a significant share of the Final Fantasy series for the last 10 years. Ring any bells? That's why Nintendo had to create a safehouse for Square devlopers to create games for Gamecube and now DS and Wii. It's also why there's absolutely nothing stopping Enix titles appearing on Nintendo systems.
[quote=Darkbackward]A. The Cell Phone game market is different than the console market. The Cell phone games are handled by a different developer with what I'd imagine a bit different gameplay due to the limitations and portability of the platform. Also, your generalization of cell phone games shows your vast ignorance and idiocy. Snake is an awesome game, and there have been several awesome Tetris ports. In any case, to generalize as you do is a mistake, and it hurts you later on....
Snake is an "awesome game" for twelve minutes when you are so ridiculously bored that you're quite happy to resort to playing a mobile phone game. There are far better games on the original GameBoy than Snake, and the GameBoy was a much less powerful system with less buttons to work with, not to mention no colour and a much smaller storage medium. Other problems also plague mobile phones as a game playing device, the input device is irregular and generally absolutely abysmal and most of them run on Java, which make them chug along at about 12 frames per second, if that. Lastly, they pale in comparison to any other portable games device, no one in their right mind would pick the vast majority of mobile phone games (be honest here, the one thing we can agree on is that they're all quick cash-ins, surely?) over a GBA, DS or PSP.
[quote=Darkbackward]B. Ratchet and Clank PS3 is NOT in development. The video shown was a TECH DEMO created to show off the power of the PS3 and let the world know that Insomniac was going to stay with its series. Ratchet and Clank PS3 will ONLY be done by Insomniac, and it will ONLY start development after Resistance is launched.
It's in the planning stages, to be released in 2007. That's in development enough for me, I'm only concerned about when it's released.
[quote=Darkbackward]C. To call Ratchet and Clank the "same" because they are all in the same genre is ridiculous. Not because Ratchet: Deadlocked is a full blown action game, Not because Up Your arsenal included online play and was a hybridized action/platformer, Not because Going Commando completely uplifted the series from collection to weapon play, and not because the original was a traditional platformer but because each game has been unique in the series.
I didn't say all the games were the same, let's get that straight. I said they're all in the same genre. The crticism I levelled at it was that there were so many in such a short space of time, one a year. That's a ridiculous amount for one development team, output like that is only matched by EAs Madden and FIFA teams. See where I'm going with this? I think EA is the whore of the industry, most people agree with that, and Insomniac are doing just what they do.
[quote=Darkbackward]Would you call the original SMB series the same just becuase they were in the same genre (even though, as I've pointed out, not all Ratchet and Clank games are in the same genre)? Calling the Ratchet and Clank series the same is MUCH more ludicrous than that.
There were 4 Super Mario Bros games in a space of six years, followed by one 3D Mario game per generation for the last 2 generations and a 5th SMB recently. That's 7 games fitting 2 genres in about 21 years, compared to 8 Ratchet and Clank platformers in 8 years.
One of those is a sequel factory, one of those is a spinoff factory. I think a spinoff factory is slightly better because it allows the original dev team to take their time with the root series aswell as creating new experiences for players with the same character and universe.
At any rate, my point is they're both clearly sellouts. Welcome to the industry, son.
Honestly, what do you think Sony would do if they happened to have the most popular videogames character in the world under their belt? Mario is the exception to the norm whatever context you put him in, so I think it's highly unfair to use him as a classic example of anything in any arguement.
[quote=Darkbackward]There are people who love some, and hate others. Generally it's more of a lovable feeling because Insomniac just makes great games but each person has their favorites.
Same goes for all the different Mario titles. Oh that's right, it doesn't work both ways because it's Nintendo.
[quote=Darkbackward]To answer your last part: Yes, it is very different to have a game series that progresses from game to game, never being merely updates than it is to put out the same character in various different genres that cash in on easy to get into gameplay.
So it is MUCH worse to have a game character flying around on several different games with varying values, almost all of them having repetition as one, than having a series that is mostly handled by one main developer on one main platform series (the platform being the console opposed to the cell phone or handheld). The former is whoring to an annoying degree, and the latter is really doing the right thing.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
From here on in I've decided that Mario isn't a fitting example, no matter how easy it is to argue his case. Being the most popular gaming franchise in the history of the world makes him an exception to the rule. Every company has their most popular franchise, everyone whores them out. It's ridiculous that you only ever use Mario as an example for Nintendo's business practises when you can't honestly say any company would do any different.
Care to comment on Nintendo's whoring out of Zelda, F-Zero, Metroid, Wave Race, 1080, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem, Golden Sun, Starfox, WarioWare, Pikmin, Chibo Robo, Super Smash Brothers, Nintendogs or Animal Crossing?
Oh wait, what about Pokémon? Well tough s[COLOR=lightgreen]h[/COLOR]it, that's the 2nd most popular franchise in the world, therefore also an exception to the norm. It doesn't even have that many spinoffs anyway, considering the size of the thing. Your arguement is that Nintendo whores out ALL its characters, so I want to see your arguement for that. Not how it whores out the 2 most popular gaming franchises on the planet, which is utterly without blame considering the games are still good and no other company in the world wouldn't do what they do if they could.
[quote=Darkbackward]Insomniac is fulfilling the promise of Mario NES. No annoying spinoffs, just great games that progress in each sequel. The Cell phone games and the PSP game are different platforms, utilizing each platform's strengths.
Nintendo don't force you to buy spinoffs, nor have they stopped creating new games in the main series. You lose.
[quote=Big Boss][FONT=trebuchet ms][COLOR=yellowgreen]Surely, games like G[COLOR=yellowgreen]o[/COLOR]d of War and Metal Gear Solid have touched on this, but I believe Jaffe wants it to be the focal point of a game, and I'm assuming that's what his PSP project is trying to be.[/COLOR][/FONT]
I don't know about GoW, but surely MGS ridicules this ideal for the most part? What with it's plentiful supply of expertly casted, acted and directed cut-scenes used to describe the story.
In MGS there was a point in the game where you had to kill your war friend in a scene-like thing. It probably wouldn't have meant much to those who didn't know the character that died, but you couldn't go on in the game unless he died. In RE4, the scenes were interactive. I think that's what he means by "touching" on it.
In Katamari Damacy, there weren't any scenes except for those strange kids; the story wasn't the driving point in the game, it was the game itself. I felt really sad when I didn't meet the expectations of the level. I think that's what Jaffe wants to do.
I think you may be right, I just had a heck a lot of completely non-emotional responses to these situations. I tend to play MGS games "wrong" anyway.