awwwwww, whats wrong fate




Posted by Lord of Spam

made cuz i made you admit that you should be demodded?

Granted, I'm making the assumption that it was you that deleted my thread, but since it was in a board that you mod, and i got you to admit that you should be demoded, i think you can understand why i think that it was you the deleted it=^.^=




Posted by The Judge

It's grounds for demodding if you delete one thread? Come on, man. I just gripe.




Posted by Xenos

Wait, what thread was this? O_o [/nosmileatvgctofitthisexpressionweeaboo]




Posted by Lord of Spam

it was one where i was *****ing about how the off topic mods tend to suck in specific, and how the mods in general are sketchy.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: it was one where i was *****ing about how the off topic mods tend to suck in specific, and how the mods in general are sketchy.

I would have deleted it, too. I've heard enough of your worthless *****ing. Just because you don't agree with every decision, we're not the ones with the problem. You're just a dumbass for thinking that every last thing we do should be to your liking. Maybe you should keep quiet until there's a large offense, and not start one of your tantrums every time you don't like a small decision we make.



Posted by The Judge

You get irritated very easily nowadays.




Posted by Kodachi

We're in the flame board. :)




Posted by Lord of Spam

We werent:cookie:

Though it helps to know that the mods dont think that they need to listen to the members. I mean, its not like you're there to make sure the boards run well for the users or anything.




Posted by Ant

the nachos made my poo poo stink.




Posted by Lord of Spam

the funny thing is that i've been snacking on nachos, and my poo has been especially bad recently.

huh.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

the board in general sucks




Posted by GameMiestro


Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: the board in general sucks


Get like a tree and leave...



Posted by The Judge

*Leaf

Stupid. You make like a banana and split




Posted by Lord of Spam

make like a person and gtfo




Posted by mis0

Make like a seal and get clubbed to death and/or be pelted alive. :)




Posted by The Judge

Make like a clown and actually BE FUNNY FOR ONCE IN YOUR MISERABLE LIFE.

That or become a serial killer.




Posted by Zeta

Make like a Forrest and run.

...Yeah, I got nothin'....




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting The Judge: That or become a serial killer.


im fukken there



Posted by Iris

I must've missed it. I hope you don't mind reiterating your complaints.




Posted by mis0


Quoting The Judge: Make like a clown and actually BE FUNNY FOR ONCE IN YOUR MISERABLE LIFE.

That or become a serial killer.

Where do you live, little man? YOU'RE FIRST ON MY HIT LIST AND MENU. YUM YUM!



Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: We werent:cookie:

Though it helps to know that the mods dont think that they need to listen to the members. I mean, its not like you're there to make sure the boards run well for the users or anything.

If you want us to listen, then make your complaints like a big boy! Don't whine over every last decision. We can't please everyone. Just because it's not your day doesn't mean you have to say we all suck. Please learn when your complaints aren't wanted. If you can't do that, just assume they are never wanted.



Posted by Klarth

Hi, piss-lips!

*has nothing to contribute to another retarded argument*




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz


Quoting GameMiestro: Get like a tree and leave...


make like an intoxicated sorority girl and blow me :)



Posted by sabre

I like hoiw a thread ctiricising oderation turns itno a load of total ****, none of you hguys are repsonsible in the least.




Posted by Klarth

Nice typing




Posted by sabre

Why thankl you.




Posted by Xenos

Drunk much, *****?




Posted by KoH

We should have bots as mods. Those ****ers never make mistakes.




Posted by Vg200x

make like a beaver and end this mindless ****...lmao.




Posted by Fate

I don't need to be demodded. I never even admitted it. Everyone likes to say they can do the job better. All I hear is *****ing.




Posted by Lord of Spam

"mods need to act in a coordinated manner"
"lol lone wolf"
"..."




Posted by Iris

LoS, what were you complaining about? I'd rather know before taking a side.




Posted by sabre

He's saying that all mods should consult each other and have a handbook so they all make the same decisions.




Posted by Klarth

Alright, we'll pretend we agree on everything from now on :)




Posted by sabre

Sounds like a plan, Klarth!




Posted by Ant

Was the bad typing a way of mocking LoS? I think it was...it was wasn't?

oh, and I <3 your sig Fate!




Posted by sabre


Quoting Ant: Was the bad typing a way of mocking LoS? I think it was...it was wasn't?
No, that was me being ****ed out of my head.



Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

fate, can I have some makeout?




Posted by Ant

Then I just indirectly owned LoS. f[COLOR="Lime"]u[/COLOR]ck win




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Sabredog: He's saying that all mods should consult each other and have a handbook so they all make the same decisions.


My point was more specifically directed at the off topic mods, since there are more than one per board. And I never said that they should consult each other, either. You're being just as big a **** as fate is about this now.:(

My point was that the rule enforcement was erratic at best. If a thread goes off topic, it might stay, it might get moved, it might get deleted, or the posts might get pruned. And even different people think of spam differently. The point was that it makes it VERY hard to know what will and wont be accepted, and logging back in to find that the fon convos you were having are getting deleted half the time grows annoying. So I wanted some sort of universal, even enforcement, with a predetermined set of rules that the mods would stick to.

But apparently thats too much to ask of these big babies (lol ant sup).



Posted by Kodachi

It turns out that whether or not something is spam is more of an opinion thing than a fact. I'd really love to see this handbook you have in mind. It sounds more like you want us to conform to your rules and always make decisions you like.




Posted by sabre


Quoting Lord of Spam: My point was more specifically directed at the off topic mods, since there are more than one per board. And I never said that they should consult each other, either. You're being just as big a **** as fate is about this now.:(
If I'm being a ****, it's not deliberate, honest. :/ That's how I interpretted it.



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Kodachi: It turns out that whether or not something is spam is more of an opinion thing than a fact. I'd really love to see this handbook you have in mind. It sounds more like you want us to conform to your rules and always make decisions you like.


I'm not really trying to say a certain way things should be done, I'm jsut saying be ****ing consistant. If you're going to just randomly make up rules, it get annoying quickly.



Posted by Fate

Instead of all this *****ing going on back and forth, let me explain to you why your idea of "no spam while the thread is still active" rule won't work. All it takes is one person to make some remark in a thread to derail it completely, mostly leading to inside/4chan jokes and leaving the original topic to be forgotten. I would take it upon myself to delete all of that, even if the thread dies. Spam would be the only thing keeping the thread alive, and spam isn't allowed (by me, anyways). So it won't work. :/




Posted by Lord of Spam

Except that you dont delete all the things that are spam. So i guess thats a fail.




Posted by Fate

If I see it, then yeah, I do. Are you saying I don't do my job?




Posted by Iris

You said yourself there's plenty of mods in OT, LoS. I can't quite understand why you're getting after Fate because she doesn't do all the work.

Also, I hope you understand that just because they're all moderators doesn't mean they all mod in the same way. The fact that we don't overrule eachother's decisions is what keeps us from arguing amongst one another.




Posted by Trigger

[quote=Fate]If I see it, then yeah, I do. Are you saying I don't do my job?
He is saying that none of you are consistent with your actions. Whether you're doing your job in one thread day doesn't mean you're doing your job in another. You've deleted things that seemed absolutely unnecessary of a deletion and yet other threads which clearly were nothing but pure nonesense, remained in-tact. If you're going to delete/prune/close a thread that, by your opinion, is 'rule breaking', then at least do it for every other thread that does the same thing.

And really, if he isn't allowed to suggest what is spam or not (considering it currently is based entirely on opinion of the individual), then what makes your opinion any different? Do not attempt to use the "Moderator status" excuse, either. That one, special word does not make your decision making any more clear than any other individual on this forum.

So, tell me, what is spam and why is your statement of what it is the absolute rule and guildeline? If he shouldn't impliment some kind of 'guildelines' it appears to me you all don't already have one that is clearly uniformed. How can you ensure that actual spam is being removed, if each of you moderators have a different opinion and outlook on what spam is? It either is, or it isn't spam.

If you're going to do something as a moderator, ensure you'll continue to do the same thing, not throw your emotions into the decision and decide how much attachment you have to a thread before assessing if you're willing to lose such a topic. At best, you should only need to prune topics to restore them to their original purity - if you can allow it to become so derailed and destroyed that it must be deleted because it cannot be saved, then how can you say you are doing your job?

Don't suggest that it's hard, either. This forum has far too many moderators to be short on authority and power to prune such topics, and plenty of you are on far enough as it is. If you can argue forever about this one topic, you could be spending an equal amount of time putting your words into actions in real topics that require it.

Boo-hoo, he has an opinion you don't like, just as you have an opinion he doesn't like. Who must make the compromise? He, the user or you, the one designated to keep users happy and create a happy, user-friendly environment? If you can't take the calls, don't take the job.




Posted by Lord of Spam

[quote]If I see it, then yeah, I do. Are you saying I don't do my job?

What I'm saying is that all of you could be better with a little bit of coordination.:(


Quoting Iris: You said yourself there's plenty of mods in OT, LoS. I can't quite understand why you're getting after Fate because she doesn't do all the work.

Also, I hope you understand that just because they're all moderators doesn't mean they all mod in the same way. The fact that we don't overrule eachother's decisions is what keeps us from arguing amongst one another.


Well, this thread was more about the fact that fate (again, im assuming it was her) deleted the thread were she was being critisized rather than retorting, but it sorta fell back into the original debate. Honestly, I didnt really intend this thread as any sort of intelligent debate; I just wanted to poke fun at the fact that she couldnt defend herself.

And again, I'm not saying anything about overruling eachother. Hell, if anything I want LESS of that by some sort of universal enforcement that everyone can get on board with. Its not like I'm asking for some full governmental body with a drawn out constitution or anything; just be ****ing consitant.



Posted by Fate

He can suggest spam all he wants-- that's what reporting posts is for. I tend to leave picture threads and flame threads alone because those are often controlled by the threadmaker themselves. Those are allowed to get off-topic because their pure existence allows it.

When you become a moderator of something like OT and are a bit more serious about your job, it's only natural that you're going to step on someone's toes. People associated with LoS are into 4chan jokes and inside jokes; that usually leads to an occasional (and unnecessary) derailment. That stuff, regardless of thread activity, I delete. There are also a couple of derailed threads that sometimes lead into a good discussion-- I don't bother to split the threads because the natural course of the thread has shifted. If some other mod wants to split the thread, then they may because it would be a completely rational decision. Every mod pretty much knows what is acceptable and what isn't. We just have different levels of activity.

If you're going to throw the emotional attachment crap out there, I'll have you know that I when I first took this job, people were really upset that I took it upon myself to delete all the festering cockboils of posts that they made but were never deleted. I went into every thread and got rid of stuff. I'm not sure if I'm the only mod that did this, either. I merged topics, I moved some, and deleted others. I even got rid of my own threads. I do mass-prune posts, and I'm sure moderators like Kodachi and Iris do so, too. The active modbase, I'd like to think, does the job fairly well.

LoS happy? 4chan would be allowed to infest everything. The thing he suggested would ruin our happy modbase. Us talking to each other all the time would be a real joke. The idea sounds good, but it just wouldn't work, like I kindly explained to him.

I think I do a fine job.
:cool:




Posted by Lord of Spam

Jesus ****ing christ you're a dense little **** arent you?

Let me say this again. Its going to be in big red letters since apparently you've been missing it.

[color=red]I'M NOT SAYING THAT YOU ALL NEED TO SIT AROUND TALKING ABOUT EVERY DECISION THAT GETS MADE, YOU IGNORANT LITTLE GIT. ALL IM SAYING IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE CONSISTANCY IN ENFORCEMENT. SO TALK ONCE, AND THEN FOLLOW THE ******* RULES THAT YOU SET.[/COLOR]

Got that now? Its pretty ****ing easy. And as for the 4chan ****, you're just retarded. I'm tired of peope immediately saying ZOMG HE LIEKS TEH CHAN OF FOURS HE WANTS TO SPREAD IT EVERYWHERE HE GOES ALL HE DOES IS SPIT MEMES LOL FAGET. Its ****ing bull****. In fact, I DONT want to spread 4chan. Part of what makes it fun is that its the ONE place where such idiocy and monstrosity is allowed. If it were spread, it wouldnt by fun anymore. So shut the **** up with that bull****. I dont spew memes all over the place anywhere other than DA, and even there its not like every post is a repost.

And as for ruining the happy modbase... guess what, dip****? THE MODS ARE THERE TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY. In other words, ITS YOUR JOB TO MAKE THINGS HAPPY AND CHEERFUL FOR ALL US NONMODS. You can shove your ****ing personal happiness up your *** sideways; I really dont give a ****. All I'm saying is that the mods in general need to have some ****ing consistancy, for ****s sake. Its not that ****ing hard.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

I think some hugs are in order




Posted by Lord of Spam

no1 luvs me :(




Posted by mis0

You're a fivehead. We don't approve of the fivehead.




Posted by Kodachi

Not only is almost every situation different, but the same 4 or 5 people looking at a situation could give 5 different opinions on it. It's impossible to create guidelines, unless we all had the same opinions on what spam is, what derailment is, and what is a good discussion. I see threads that I think are borderline, but not worth deleting, and the next day I notice that someone else thought of it as complete garbage. I don't think you seem to understand that 5 different people can and often will look at something in 5 different ways.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

so what you are saying, kodachi, is that since none can completely agree or even TRY to agree on ANYTHING, then mods are completely useless and we should do away with them all together?? BY JOVE!




Posted by Fate

We've already tried to agree, which is why we're currently not butting heads. That's how we do it. It's difficult to moderate a community that sucks.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: so what you are saying, kodachi, is that since none can completely agree or even TRY to agree on ANYTHING, then mods are completely useless and we should do away with them all together?? BY JOVE!

I'm saying that it's asking different people to have the exact same opinion on everything in the board.



Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

That's not how a moderator is supposed to work, though. You're like congressmen. We elect you to listen to the pleas of the lowly, and do what you think's best. You're SUPPOSED to generalize and you're SUPPOSED to **** a few people off here and there. WHen you basically say "there's nothign we can do! We can't please everyone!" you're basically neglecting your elected responsibilities, which is lynchin grounds whar I come from.




Posted by Kanashuri

Shut up BJ. First off WE dont choose who will be a MOD or not, El Jesse does. Second off mods are in no way like ****ing congress you limp dicked ****. WHat the **** are you talking ABOUT! What are we gonna do? Lynch the mods? I take offense to that. What, are you calling mods ******s now? Im black, whore and I am APPALLED AT WHAT YOU SAY! Kodachi wins. BJ does what his initials are. Plz




Posted by Iris

We can't all have the same opinions on what's too far off topic or when a topic's been derailed. We follow the basic quidlines, like deleting porn and advertisements, moving gaming threads, etc, but we don't have to have the same opinion on each topic. We do what each one of us thinks best, but we don't force eachother's opinions on everyone else.

Just because we're moderators doesn't mean we must think exactly alike. We each do what we can to keep the majority happy.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

well then don't think it's unruly when someone gets ****y at your inconsistencies and raises a stink




Posted by Iris

We'd be consistent if you looked at how we work individually. Unfortunately, we don't leave a nametag on each duty we perform.

You're right, we are elected to do what we think is best. That's why we're somewhat inconsistent as a whole.




Posted by KoH

[quote=Kanashuri]Shut up BJ. First off WE dont choose who will be a MOD or not, El Jesse does. Second off mods are in no way like ****ing congress you limp dicked ****. WHat the **** are you talking ABOUT! What are we gonna do? Lynch the mods? I take offense to that. What, are you calling mods ******s now? Im black, whore and I am APPALLED AT WHAT YOU SAY! Kodachi wins. BJ does what his initials are. Plz
That was probably the worst excuse for a flame I've ever seen. Stop posting in the flame board. Your inane and stupid posting style has no place here, not to mention your bizarre capitalization.




Posted by Kanashuri


Quoting KoH: That was probably the worst excuse for a flame I've ever seen. Stop posting in the flame board. Your inane and stupid posting style has no place here, not to mention your bizarre capitalization.


I concur with KoH statement. STFU Kanashuri you dumbass, and STOP capitalizing words you IDIOT!



Posted by Bj Blaskowitz


Quoting Kanashuri: Shut up BJ. First off WE dont choose who will be a MOD or not, El Jesse does. Second off mods are in no way like ****ing congress you limp dicked ****. WHat the **** are you talking ABOUT! What are we gonna do? Lynch the mods? I take offense to that. What, are you calling mods ******s now? Im black, whore and I am APPALLED AT WHAT YOU SAY! Kodachi wins. BJ does what his initials are. Plz


I demand you explain who you are and why I shouldn't ignore your childish posting and why I should give to squirts of **** about what you have to say



Posted by Trigger

[quote=Kanashuri] Im black, whore and I am APPALLED AT WHAT YOU SAY!
He said nothing about racial differences. His comments don't even shed a single amount of care on what ones skin colour and cultural differences are. Quit making poor attempts to whine about something that someone didn't even do. Oh, you can swear a bit and feel as though you're laying the ground and playing Mr Hardass. Hush, you foolish boy.

Also, if you had two ounces of brain within that thick cranium of yours, you would notice that Bj Blaskowitz is his entire username and, appropriately, named after a game character. Guffaw, you're so witty to associate 'B' and 'J' with blowjob! A round of applause, everyone...




Posted by Xenos

Correction: Mods and Jesse choose other mods. Mainly the existant mods, though.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Bj Blaskowitz: That's not how a moderator is supposed to work, though. You're like congressmen. We elect you to listen to the pleas of the lowly, and do what you think's best. You're SUPPOSED to generalize and you're SUPPOSED to **** a few people off here and there. WHen you basically say "there's nothign we can do! We can't please everyone!" you're basically neglecting your elected responsibilities, which is lynchin grounds whar I come from.

But we're really not like congressmen, unless you expect us to all talk before any moderating decision. We just use our best judgement. Since there are several of us, the judgement used to make a decision is often different. We can't all be there when someone has to make a decision, otherwise we wouldn't need several moderators. I'm not saying there's nothing we can do at all. I'm saying that it's impossible to please everyone every time, no matter how hard we try. They just need to stop the *****ing when they don't agree with every small decision.



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Kodachi: But we're really not like congressmen, unless you expect us to all talk before any moderating decision.


I HATE MYSELF AND WANT TO DIE.



Posted by The Judge

The Admin, every mod, and every member ('specially me) sucks. Moot point.

Ipso facto vie sa vie, case in point what you can do for your country. That's no moon, Stella.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: I HATE MYSELF AND WANT TO DIE.

I wasn't talking to you, and I didn't say you wanted that. Learn to read.



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Kodachi: I wasn't talking to you, and I didn't say you wanted that. Learn to read.



The point stands. nobody is asking you to sit around and talk about every single thing that gets done, yet you are ALL still throwing that back as your defense.

Well guess what? Its horse ****. So stop trying to use it.



Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: The point stands. nobody is asking you to sit around and talk about every single thing that gets done, yet you are ALL still throwing that back as your defense.

Well guess what? Its horse ****. So stop trying to use it.

I refer you back to the second thing I said in my last post. I threw an "unless" in there. I used that statement to disprove his congressman comparison. Let's take a look at it in another way.
Unless he is asking us to speak before every decision,(which I know he's not) we're not really like congressmen. Reading is fun.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Kodachi
Ugh.


Sums it up pretty well, amirite?

lol jk.



Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Kodachi: I refer you back to the second thing I said in my last post. I threw an "unless" in there. I used that statement to disprove his congressman comparison. Let's take a look at it in another way.
Unless he is asking us to speak before every decision,(which I know he's not) we're not really like congressmen. Reading is fun.



Are you aware how a comparison like that works? If he meant that you had EVERY trait in common, he would have said "you are a congress." But, he said LIKE. That means that not everything is the same, which opens the room for NOT HAVING TO TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Reading IS fun. Maybe you should learn how to go about it? Hell, I make more typos in one minute than most do in their LIVES and I'm still doing better at this than you.:(



Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: Are you aware how a comparison like that works? If he meant that you had EVERY trait in common, he would have said "you are a congress." But, he said LIKE. That means that not everything is the same, which opens the room for NOT HAVING TO TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Reading IS fun. Maybe you should learn how to go about it? Hell, I make more typos in one minute than most do in their LIVES and I'm still doing better at this than you.:(

The fact that they talk quite a bit before every decision is a pretty big part of that, especially since this complaint is kind of against the way we make our decisions. It's like trying to say one car is like another in speed because they are both blue.



Posted by Iris

-You're calling us inconsistent because we don't set up guidelines for the moderation of things.
-Setting guidelines would require us to all have the same positions on certain posts and posting styles.
-Being congressmen would mean that we have to come to an agreement as a whole for any posts or such that we have different opinions on, rather than setting up guidelines that we disagree with.
-Acting as a congress would be time-consuming and not worth the effort, as we can accept eachothers choices and have enough faith that we will be satisfied with the outcome.

Like I said before, we're consistent individuals at least. It's unrealistic to expect us all to act the same as the other mods in certain scenarios, but we try our hardest to please the members.

Maybe it's just more noticable in boards with more moderators...




Posted by Lord of Spam

Not at all. The point he was trying to make was about the duties, not the methods per se. He was (I assume) getting at the fact that you guys have a duty to, essentially, make this place as nice for us as possible.




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Iris: -You're calling us inconsistent because we don't set up guidelines for the moderation of things.
-Setting guidelines would require us to all have the same positions on certain posts and posting styles.
-Being congressmen would mean that we have to come to an agreement as a whole for any posts or such that we have different opinions on, rather than setting up guidelines that we disagree with.
-Acting as a congress would be time-consuming and not worth the effort, as we can accept eachothers choices and have enough faith that we will be satisfied with the outcome.

Like I said before, we're consistent individuals at least. It's unrealistic to expect us all to act the same as the other mods in certain scenarios, but we try our hardest to please the members.

Maybe it's just more noticable in boards with more moderators...


Honestly, cutting half the mods/replacing all of you with active mods would work just as well most likely.



Posted by Iris

I'm sure BJ's already aware that we try hard to please people and can't help it if a few are unhappy.

Also, we're all active mods. We were all selected because we deserve the position and do well as moderators. Nothing's wrong with a bit of spam overkill. The only difference if we have less moderators would be less diversity in moderating mannerisms, which isn't actually going to help.

I'm fairly sure the mod team would prefer constant surveillance rather than 2 people agreeing that "is dis loli?" is spam.




Posted by Lord of Spam

Once again, I really dont see what is so hard about making universal guidelines and then implementing them universally. Its not like it would take anymore than like 20 minutes, and if you dont have 20 minutes to spare, then you dont deserve a mod spot.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: Once again, I really dont see what is so hard about making universal guidelines and then implementing them universally. Its not like it would take anymore than like 20 minutes, and if you dont have 20 minutes to spare, then you dont deserve a mod spot.

Make some fake guidelines, quick, and I'll show you why it won't work.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Once again, I really dont see what is so hard about making universal guidelines and then implementing them universally. Its not like it would take anymore than like 20 minutes, and if you dont have 20 minutes to spare, then you dont deserve a mod spot.


The difficulty is in the fact that this isn't a strict board. What's accepted from someone isn't by someone else. Chances are, it would cause far more anger than the current situation.



Posted by Hyper


Quoting Lord of Spam: and if you dont have 20 minutes to spare, then you dont deserve a mod spot.

THAT 20 MINUTES GOES INTO MODDING MY BOARDS



Posted by Iris

Ugh. NOT EVERYONE HAS THE SAME OPINION ON HOW TO DEAL WITH CERTAIN POSTS. UNIVERSAL GUIDELINES WOULD MEAN THE MODERATOR PERFORMS DUTIES THAT HE OR SHE MAY DISAGREE WITH.
[COLOR=#666666]I HAD TO USE LOUD CAPITAL LETTERS! >:O HAPPY NOW?[/COLOR]
If you'd honestly prefer majority of mods debunking things you may find acceptable as idiotic spam, then fine, but the mod team could have easily picked up a group of new members willing to go about their duties as robots if they wanted that. Just because we're mods doesn't mean we totally agree with every decision other mods make. Like Vampiro said, if we were to become so strict about this then even more problems would arise.




Posted by Trigger

At least it would be equal opportunity, where everyone gets their threads moderated for the reason, not because of who they have connections with. You act like universal guidelines would be difficult, but you've already faced one: the agreement you made when registering at any vBulletin forum. Universal guidelines can be created by someone who should have the right to make them, who isn't biased for moderators or users. Jesse may be a good choice, being the administrator and the person we all, at the end of the day, must be submissive to. The only problem with him is that he is probably a little too lazy to be elected for such a quick duty.

If you are unable to agree with each other on something as simple as guidelines, you make terrible moderators. This isn't about being "strict," it's about equal opportunity and the same actions being followed through and applied to everyone, all the time as opposed to just when a moderator "thinks" that person "deserves" it. Being able to agree with one another whilst performing a job position that is expected of you is a pretty basic skill. If you cannot master it on a gaming forum, I dare not think you will master it at places that actually matter. A real career and job, for example...

Quit your complaining and trying to provide ridiculous excuses about how it can't be done and how you can't do it. You haven't even taken a single step to even trial an idea that some members clearly agree is a good idea. You're all pathetic, it's a wonder you actually get any respect from some of these people...




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: At least it would be equal opportunity, where everyone gets their threads moderated for the reason, not because of who they have connections with.


I'd rather have lax rules than "equal opportunity", personally. At least now you only have a few complaints here and there, as opposed to what will probably be many threads complaining about various crap no one really cares about.



Posted by Iris

Holy ****, Trigger managed to miss the point completely.




Posted by Kodachi

I still can't believe that there are people who can't grasp such a simple concept. It's hard to make guidelines based around something that is opinion rather than fact.




Posted by Lord of Spam

I still cant believe that none of you get that all I"m saying is that you need to come up with a generally agreed upon opinion, and then follow through on it.

If you cant work together, than you shouldnt be mods, which ties me back into the reason this thread got made.




Posted by Iris

We have some guidelines that all moderators follow. I'm sure you're all aware what we do with porn, advertising, etc, but there's no middle ground for deletion and such. Example: If one mod deletes a thread because they consider it spam, eventhough another mod doesn't consider it spam, there is no way to please both moderators. It's a moderator's opinion if they debunk a thread as spam. You do know what an opinion is, right? We can't set guidelines for most things because nearly everyone is different. Why would we make all moderators enforce rules that they may disagree with?

Also, stop with the "you guys are bad mods" bull****. It's such an inane comeback to an actual argument.




Posted by Lord of Spam

Your only retort is that you cnt enforce rules because you cant agree on them, and you're calling MY arguments crap?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

LoS, you know it wouldn't be a good idea to make this forum "strict". I think most of the mods know the general community well enough to understand the humour of certain individuals, therefore what should stay and what should be deleted.

Are they the best we could possibly get? No, I've voiced my opinion on that before. But personally, the job they do is "good enough". Like I've said, I probably wouldn't enjoy this site anymore if I couldn't kid around like I do from time to time.

All we need are a few "janitors", not a SWAT team.




Posted by Trigger

[quote=Iris]Example: If one mod deletes a thread because they consider it spam, eventhough another mod doesn't consider it spam, there is no way to please both moderators.
How is it any different if a moderator currently deletes something that another disagrees with? Oh, wait, it isn't.

[quote]We can't set guidelines for most things because nearly everyone is different. Why would we make all moderators enforce rules that they may disagree with?
You can set guidelines, you're all just too worried about yourselves getting what you like and what makes you happy that you couldn't particularly care what the actual user base wants and agrees with. If one moderator doesn't agree on a 'general guideline' it shouldn't even be attempted, despite the fact that if they don't like it, they have the option to remove themselves from the moderator position and return as a regular user? Yet, if several users don't appreciate or agree with the current ways of the moderators, it's "tough luck?"

Even within your argument there is no consistency.




Posted by Iris

[quote=Trigger]How is it any different if a moderator currently deletes something that another disagrees with? Oh, wait, it isn't.

Uh, because the mod who dislikes it doesn't have to enforce it?

[quote]You can set guidelines, you're all just too worried about yourselves getting what you like and what makes you happy that you couldn't particularly care what the actual user base wants and agrees with.

Be a doll and tell me if the majority of users here would prefer to have a less diverse and more strict mod team. I'd love to see how we aren't trying to please most users. If we just wanted to make ourselves happy we'd have no problem overruling eachother.

[quote]If one moderator doesn't agree on a 'general guideline' it shouldn't even be attempted, despite the fact that if they don't like it, they have the option to remove themselves from the moderator position and return as a regular user?

We're not going to force the mods to do what they don't want to do, and we're not so immature as to cast them aside because they disagree.

[quote]Yet, if several users don't appreciate or agree with the current ways of the moderators, it's "tough luck?"

Even within your argument there is no consistency.

This is the first complaint we've received about consistency and it seems only a few of our members disagree with the moderation.




Posted by mis0

Actually, a less diverse team would bring about consistency - what was originally asked for in this thread. Also, you guys do argue and overrule each other occassionally, so don't pretend that you don't.

The issue I tend to find with the mod base is that you guys typically assert that your job is so difficult, when, all you need to do is follow the same set of rules so things are consistent and fair for all users. You can't please everyone, that's of course, not possible, but you could moderate more fairly in the intrest of the members at large by simply following the same guidelines.

That, mods, is your job. If you don't like it, maybe you should consider resigning your postition.

[spoiler]This is not meant to be inflammatory or an attack on anyone. Hopefully it won't be recieved that way.[/spoiler]




Posted by sabre

We already have basic guidelines. They're called the rules. We all moderate based on the criteria set therein. LoS, your problem (unless I'm mistaken) is that the mods don't adhere strictly enough to those guidelines and therefore they need... more guidelines to ignore?

Mods are pompous. They'll moderate how they see fit, and judge the situation theirselves. I do this myself - I don't think anyone splitted threads until I started, and I'm a bit more lax than other mods sometimes. I like to leave thread redirects when I move a thread, so people don't ask where their threads have gone.

Fair or no (and I don't always agree with other mods' judgements) I don't really think a set of rules is going to change that. Keep in mind that the person behind it is a human. Also keep in mind that because this is a message board, i.e. people are posting their own ideas in their own style, there's not really a black and white guideline anyway. Someone might post a huge flame post and then mix in a bunch of really good, well-thought out points. Someone might post a spam post that leads to an interesting but off-topic conversation; should it be split, should you delete the post so nothing makes sense? Deterioration might sometimes be gradual, where do you start deleting posts? It's a school of thought which changes a lot depending on the situation, not a textbook example, and so you're not really going to get any black and white examples. That's why humans mod in the first place; there's a lot of personal judgement to be done.

I do, however, agree with the principle of what you're saying. As soon as they start outright contradicting each other, it's time to start questioning eligibility, and when you have so many mods on one board, then you could start questioning necessity, too. It's a lot simpler (and more consistent) when you look at, say, Board Help And Suggestions, where you just have Iris who does a great job, or the Music board. I wouldn't mind limiting to one or two mods per board, actually.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lord of Spam: I still cant believe that none of you get that all I"m saying is that you need to come up with a generally agreed upon opinion, and then follow through on it.

If you cant work together, than you shouldnt be mods, which ties me back into the reason this thread got made.

We do. You're asking us to be completely consistent in our choices, but if we look at similar things and our differences in opinion cause us to see them differently, we will decide differently based on that.

Quoted post: Your only retort is that you cnt enforce rules because you cant agree on them, and you're calling MY arguments crap?

And your retort to my "make fake guidelines and I'll show you why they won't work" request was to...ignore it. :(



Posted by Lord of Spam

If you wont enforce your own rules, what makes you think you'd enforce mine? Not to mention that when you say "Make some fake guidelines, quick, and I'll show you why it won't work." its pretty obvious that no matter how good they would be, youi're just going to stick your head in the sand and yell NU UH IT WONT WRK I NO CUZ IM A MOD ALREADY LOL.

Sabre: cutting a few mods sounds like the most reasonable solution so far, I guess, but once again, I doubt anyone is going to do it, since they all want to preserve their precious epenises.




Posted by Kodachi

No, I was basically going to say "Well, I might see that thread as (type of spam), but (other mod) might not."




Posted by Lord of Spam

Wow, that would have been a pretty ****ty response to a list of rules.

From where I sit, it looks like you guys have your minds set. its been shown that things could be changed for the better, but you all are content to just maintain the status quo because its easier for you. Well, bullocks.




Posted by Kodachi

We already have rules that are agreed upon. Since whether or not something is "spam" is more of an opinion than a fact, the mods use their best JUDGEMENT. Different peopls have different JUDGEMENT, which is why not everyone can be a mod, and it's also why no matter what guidelines you set, there will be different outcomes based on different people.




Posted by Lord of Spam

If it werent for the fact that I WAS SUGGESTING A UNIFORM DEFINITION OF SPAM that would totally ruin my argument. Oh, wait, you're retarded. Its ****ing easy to tell whether its spam or not, so dont go crying about how your job is tough.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lenin of Spam: If it werent for the fact that I WAS SUGGESTING A UNIFORM DEFINITION OF SPAM that would totally ruin my argument. Oh, wait, you're retarded. Its ****ing easy to tell whether its spam or not, so dont go crying about how your job is tough.

Isn't SPAM an acronym that stands for Stupid Pointless Annoying Messages? We all know what those words mean, but what I might think of as stupid, pointless and annoying could be something you think has value. How do you not understand this? I'm not complaining that my job is tough. I'm bothered by the fact that you can't stop your *****ing over something so small. Would you rather us delete every post made that's even the tiniest bit off topic, just to be uniform? It's hard to set an exact guideline on something that can't be expressed with some sort of number or something factual and concrete. Whether or not something is stupid is an opinion rather than a fact.



Posted by Lord of Spam

Are you really trying to tell me that you're so stupid that you cant come up with "if it derails the thread, delete it; if it rerails the thread but leads to a new discussion split it" on your own? If so, I really have to wonder how you manage to gather the brain cells needed to even turn the computer on.

But maybe I'm giving you too much credit. Maybe you have some sort of special helper who follows you around and does all your work for you while you sit drooling, rocking back and forth gently.




Posted by The Judge

The last sentence made me burst out laughing at the thought.

...Carry on.

(I couldn't rep him)




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lenin of Spam: Are you really trying to tell me that you're so stupid that you cant come up with "if it derails the thread, delete it; if it rerails the thread but leads to a new discussion split it" on your own? If so, I really have to wonder how you manage to gather the brain cells needed to even turn the computer on.

But maybe I'm giving you too much credit. Maybe you have some sort of special helper who follows you around and does all your work for you while you sit drooling, rocking back and forth gently.

What you consider derailment and what I consider derailment aren't entirely the same. Each person draws the line at whether or not a thread is derailed at a different point. Or do you want us to be total nazis and rape any thread that has a post that goes off topic slightly? Honestly, if you can't see the difference between fact and opinion, you're in bad shape. It's as bad as telling us to delete all threads that aren't funny, and suddenly expecting us to have the same opinion on whether something is humorous or not.



Posted by Lord of Spam

You remind me of a joke. Whats strong enough for a man, but made for a woman? My fist.

It is obvious when a thread is derailed. For instance, back on page whatever (too lazy to check) when this shifted to being about rules instead of me harassing fate, IT WAS ****ING DERAILED. the topic is completely different. Its not hard to tell when a topic has changed. Just go through this process. Ask yourself if the topic is different from the thread title. If so, BAM, its been derailed. Seriously, its not like ****ing rocket science.

Though then again, the fact that you and the others cant coordinate somethig so basic shoudlnt suprise me, given that I'm already complaing that you're all basically incompetent.:D




Posted by Iris

[quote=Lenin of Spam]It is obvious when a thread is derailed. For instance, back on page whatever (too lazy to check) when this shifted to being about rules instead of me harassing fate, IT WAS ****ING DERAILED. the topic is completely different.

You realize this was one of the exact points Fate brought up, right? As to not delete or lock a derailed thread if the thread has shifted to a significant debate or such.
[COLOR=#666666]You're aware that the Flame Board doesn't add to post count, right? There's no point in posting useless replies like you do in the other boards. =)[/COLOR]
I suggest the debate just ends here. Both sides are (not necessarily equally) to blame for it carrying on this far, since both sides refuse to see the points the other side is trying to make. Rather than repeating yourselves in hopes the other one will understand, let's just call it quits. I don't see this argument going any further if you keep this up.




Posted by Lord of Spam

I never said that this should be locked/deleted. Split? Hell yes (and since I"M ARGUING WITH THE MODS OF THIS BOARD I'd like to point out that none of you have yet to do that, so dont whine about how hard your job is when you obviously wont do it anyway). If a thread is moving into another conversation, bam, split it. If not, then delete the crap and leave it at that. This isnt tough stuff here, people. Theres no ****ing grey area.




Posted by Iris

Okay, let's say I think it should be locked. It's gone off topic and I don't find this debate intelligent or worth letting live. It's been of no help and has only caused unnecessary tension and unfruitful swaying of opinions.

Now, this is my judgement and I think it's best. It's my moderating opinion that this thread should be locked, and since I have the power to do so, I've chosen to lock it. Kodachi thinks it's a rational decision and understand that I acted out of my best judgement, but she would rather keep it open so she can expand upon what she's said before, and reply to anything you say.

Now, you have to pay attention here. Do you think it should be locked? Do you think it should be left alone? Do you think there's a better thing to do in this situation? [SIZE=1][SIZE=2]Remember, this is your personal judgement. You have the right to disagree with our judgement, but it's only your opinion that your choice is better. In reality, "better" is just adjective, and it's totally subjective whether or not it applies. As you can see, Kodachi and I would've passed different judgement on this. I think my choice was better than her's.[/SIZE][/SIZE]




Posted by Ant

Yeah, you're proving a pretty ****ty point spammy.




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

The Soviet Union sucked




Posted by Fate

/monarchy fan




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lenin of Spam: It is obvious when a thread is derailed. For instance, back on page whatever (too lazy to check) when this shifted to being about rules instead of me harassing fate, IT WAS ****ING DERAILED. the topic is completely different. Its not hard to tell when a topic has changed. Just go through this process. Ask yourself if the topic is different from the thread title. If so, BAM, its been derailed. Seriously, its not like ****ing rocket science.

Though then again, the fact that you and the others cant coordinate somethig so basic shoudlnt suprise me, given that I'm already complaing that you're all basically incompetent.:D

But at what exact point was it derailed? And that decision gets much more difficult when you're not participating in the thread. There are so many factors that we just have different views on in terms of moderation, and it would be impossible for us to do everything exactly alike. That's not what we were told to do, anyway.



Posted by Lord of Spam

Are you all seriosuly trying to get me to believe that you cant tell when a topic has changed? I mean, seriosuly, figuring out the topic of a sentence is something they teach to like 4th graders. Your entire argument at this point is that you're too retarded to do the job. Congrats.




Posted by Kodachi


Quoting Lenin of Spam: Are you all seriosuly trying to get me to believe that you cant tell when a topic has changed? I mean, seriosuly, figuring out the topic of a sentence is something they teach to like 4th graders. Your entire argument at this point is that you're too retarded to do the job. Congrats.

Is one post enough to derail a thread? Is it just a small side conversation? Is it a relevant point? Is it just the rambling of one person that won't be touched on by anyone else? Or maybe it's several posts, but the topic is still hovering around the original. You have this idea in your head that everything is black and white and it really isn't.



Posted by Iris

Thanks for ignoring my post. =^.^=




Posted by Lord of Spam

iris: locking threads should only be done if there are morons yelling at each other about personal things without contributing to the argument. That isnt going on here, since the main point (of the side argument, mind you, since NONE of the mods here apparently knows how to work the "split" function) is still being covered. So locking is out if you have half a brain. As for knowing when it shifted, once again, learn to ****ing read and its obvious. If you want to go down teh LOL FIND IT road I will, but that would jsut make you guys looks bad. Again.

Iris: When you see that a thread is no longer on topic, but its still an worthwhile conversation, BAM, split. Done.




Posted by Kodachi

No, it's really not obvious as to the exact time when a topic gets derailed. I could make an argument for several different posts. Topics usually don't entirely with one post. Usually, the shift is gradual. We didn't pull this topic out of our asses. But, where along that gradual shift is it enough to be considered entirely derailed and in need of moderation? And I don't need some more bull**** telling me "OMG ITS OBVIOUZ" again without giving any argument. So, yes, I will make you find it. I'll be glad to show you that there are several spots that can be considered in that decision, and that there is no clear answer.




Posted by cas

awwww fate, whats wrong?




Need a hug? :-D ♥♥♥♥♥





First thing that pops into my head when i read this thread title.






Thread derailing commence!



ps: splitting a 7 page thread takes too much effort. Picking apart each post, deciding which has enough content to be split where and splitting posts in half, paragraph by paragraph to go towards the split derail topic and the original topic is WORK. These places are supposed to be fun.

I'm glad i dont SMOD this place. seriously.




Posted by Iris

[quote=Lenin of Spam]iris: locking threads should only be done if there are morons yelling at each other about personal things without contributing to the argument. That isnt going on here, since the main point (of the side argument, mind you, since NONE of the mods here apparently knows how to work the "split" function) is still being covered. So locking is out if you have half a brain.
I don't consider repeating yourself a contribution, and I think the "you suck as a mod if you can't figure this out" replies are personal attacks. Make sense?

Let's say I think the lock feature is better put to use when a question has been thoroughly answered, correctly, or sometimes when a topic has gone no place at all, yet many posts are still being made. Once again, the necessity of these thread tools are completely subjective. Saying that I should use the split command is only your opinion, as well as where to split and if the split command is the superior tool to use.
[quote]As for knowing when it shifted, once again, learn to ****ing read and its obvious. If you want to go down teh LOL FIND IT road I will, but that would jsut make you guys looks bad. Again.
Shifting is gradual and often temporary. At this point it's obvious that the topic has shifted, but the need of split is totally dependent on who's viewing the thread. Take into consideration the original purpose of this thread, what board it's in, and its correlation to the current topic.

As for making us look bad, don't think it's just the mods that are watched. Although we have a lot of responsibility, so do each and every member. You may think our job is to accomodate every member, but don't think we won't take action if members can't put any effort into the same thing.
[quote]Iris: When you see that a thread is no longer on topic, but its still an worthwhile conversation, BAM, split. Done.
Please understand that whether or not something is worthwhile and should be confined from the rest is totally subjective.

If you can not understand this simple concept then please step out of this argument, rethink your stance, and get the fu[COLOR=#ff9999]ck[/COLOR] off my VGC.




Posted by Trigger

[quote=Cas]ps: splitting a 7 page thread takes too much effort. Picking apart each post, deciding which has enough content to be split where and splitting posts in half, paragraph by paragraph to go towards the split derail topic and the original topic is WORK.

I'm glad i dont SMOD this place. seriously.
It's their job to prevent it from becomming a seven-page mess. If they've let a thread sit for that long to fester and spiral into such a bad condition that it 'cannot be salvaged,' they have already failed at doing their job. As for all the talk about how things won't work because things are subjective and judgemental - splitting a thread is much more harmless than deleting one. On the grounds that it's subjective and judgemental, at least the thread is still there but contained in its own area. Even if anyone disagreed with the fact it was spam or not, they now have the option to ignore the thread entirely or visit that particular thread to keep going on about whatever the subject was. However, if the crap was still merged with another perfectly decent thread people have to either ignore the entire thread, including the good pieces that they're after, or deal with it until one of you pull your fingers out of your ass and think about taking some kind of action.

"It's subjective, it's too hard to decide if something should be split." Quit complaining, if this were a topic about anything other than your dismal moderating skills, you would have found some reason to delete or split this thread without difficulty at all. If I start talking about telletubbies, there's a clear-cut signal to start splitting the thread to something else. Don't pretend like every instance of thread neglect is too difficult to decipher and make a judgement on. One of you should be able to decide to split it or do somethimg with it - if this position is too tough for you and makes it difficult for you to make the calls when you need to, I suggest you leave the position open for someone more competent, who doesn't find clicking a button difficult.