Red Steel




Posted by Drewboy64

I hope the polish this game up alot; the movement looked very sluggish, but hopefully sensitivity options can change that and such. Also, apparently some of the things in the environment aren't destructable, which makes an inconsistency; you can poke holes through the japanese paper screens, but sometimes you can't destroy bottles with a shotgun. So they need ot make it more consistent and have more of the environment destructable.
Graphics look great, but sensitivity needs to be increased, especially if you use "precise" weapons later in the game.

Edit: wow, it looks so much more sensitive at the video on the website: http://redsteelgame.us.ubi.com/




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

**** sux, really disappointing.


Maybe they'll make the game actually look good and fix the controls. But right now, from what I've seen and heard, the game is pretty much a failure.




Posted by PsuedoGhost

Keep in mind that right now they are using old GCN dev kits in order to make these demos. The graphical quality should pick up somewhat here in the next few months to show what the Wii is capable of. Even if the game does wind up sucking terribly it still is perfect as a tech demo.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Even if the game does wind up sucking terribly it still is perfect as a tech demo.


Not really, since the demo itself seems to suck, as do the controls. Things like Duck Hunt, the Orchestra demo and Wii Sports are better demos for learning the controller.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=PsuedoGhost]Keep in mind that right now they are using old GCN dev kits in order to make these demos. The graphical quality should pick up somewhat here in the next few months to show what the Wii is capable of. Even if the game does wind up sucking terribly it still is perfect as a tech demo.

This is true, final hardware devkits for Revolution only arrive in June/July. So far Red Steel runs on overclocked GCs (playable) or on PCs with target renders, which is what the trailer is done on.

Tweaking the controls shouldn't be at all difficult, as games like Metroid apparantly worked fantastic, especially when the Wii in question was played in isolation. I believe things like jittering crosshairs and so on must have had something to do with 27 wireless Wii controllers all transmitting in the same area.

As for the graphics, I don't remember Ubisoft ever being involved in "bullshotography", nor would they have any real reason to when we know graphics aren't the main focus of this system. Though obviously I would be disappointed if the target renders turned out to be of Killzone 2 calibre.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post:
Tweaking the controls shouldn't be at all difficult, as games like Metroid apparantly worked fantastic, especially when the Wii in question was played in isolation. I believe things like jittering crosshairs and so on must have had something to do with 27 wireless Wii controllers all transmitting in the same area.


Metroid seemed to be split amongst show-goers. Though they all said it was a great game, the slow turning speed really hurt it. Which I understand, seeing as how even I was getting annoyed by just watching it. This invisible box idea has to be thought out better or just scraped completely. A fixed reticule, like we see in every other FPS, would also get rid of the problem.

As for the jittery crosshairs, couldn't that more likely be caused by over-sensitivity? People were complaining about Red Steels controls and how they overreacted, it even picked up on shaking hands.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro]Metroid seemed to be split amongst show-goers. Though they all said it was a great game, the slow turning speed really hurt it. Which I understand, seeing as how even I was getting annoyed by just watching it. This invisible box idea has to be thought out better or just scraped completely. A fixed reticule, like we see in every other FPS, would also get rid of the problem.

As for the jittery crosshairs, couldn't that more likely be caused by over-sensitivity? People were complaining about Red Steels controls and how they overreacted, it even picked up on shaking hands.

Fixed reticule has been tried for Wii FPSs, it doesn't work because our hands don't have a fixed position and it would move much faster than, say, a mouse would. It basically led to motion sickness because of the sensitivity of the controller. Plus, they didn't want the entire viewpoint to change for small adjustments in aiming.
I think a series of invisible boxes would be a better idea. The innermost wouldn't move the camera at all, the box after that would move the viewpoint slowly until the crosshair is in the middle box and the outermost would be best for turning.

When Matt from IGN tried Metroid by himself he said the controls were almost oversensitive, so sluggish aiming shouldn't really be a problem. He even said he could jump and pull 180s, just like in PC FPSs.

By jittering crosshairs I meant movements it shouldn't have been doing, as opposed to being reflective of shaky hands. Complaining about your hands being shaky isn't really a legitimate complaint, anyway. Humans don't have perfect aim, try aiming a pistol with a laser sight (or just a laser pointer) and you'll see what I mean.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Fixed reticule has been tried for Wii FPSs, it doesn't work because our hands don't have a fixed position and it would move much faster than, say, a mouse would. It basically led to motion sickness because of the sensitivity of the controller. Plus, they didn't want the entire viewpoint to change for small adjustments in aiming.


I don't see why they couldn't adjust it to match closer to the mouse. So, rather than having those invisible boxes, they could just mimic what's well established and loved on the PC. Shouldn't that be possible? I mean, I don't see why not. If not though, maybe you can explain it.


Quoted post:
When Matt from IGN tried Metroid by himself he said the controls were almost oversensitive, so sluggish aiming shouldn't really be a problem. He even said he could jump and pull 180s, just like in PC FPSs.


Didn't he also have a lot more time with the game? Which is actually a good thing, since we then know it's something we can easily adjust to. Which we'll have to anyways, obviously. But I don't know, I saw a lot of "looking to the left" while running "forwards". Almost like the dragging the screen was an unnecessary hassle.

Quoted post:
By jittering crosshairs I meant movements it shouldn't have been doing, as opposed to being reflective of shaky hands. Complaining about your hands being shaky isn't really a legitimate complaint, anyway. Humans don't have perfect aim, try aiming a pistol with a laser sight (or just a laser pointer) and you'll see what I mean.


Ah, you mean when the control seems to go haywire? Yeah, I heard that happened a couple of times.

But I think it is a valid complaint. This isn't exactly real life, and no one's used to shaky in-game hands (unless you play MGS3). So it just seems odd that you have something that's capable of pin-point accuracy that fails due to human flaws. I just don't think it needs to be THAT sensitive.



Posted by Last Fog

I watched the video of someone playing the demo. This game really looks like crap right now. Visually it looks mediocre even for gamecube. The aiming deosnt look very smooth and the sword fighting seems clunky, but I guess theses things can be fixed.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro]I don't see why they couldn't adjust it to match closer to the mouse. So, rather than having those invisible boxes, they could just mimic what's well established and loved on the PC. Shouldn't that be possible? I mean, I don't see why not. If not though, maybe you can explain it.

I already did, motion sickness.



[quote=Vampiro]Didn't he also have a lot more time with the game? Which is actually a good thing, since we then know it's something we can easily adjust to. Which we'll have to anyways, obviously. But I don't know, I saw a lot of "looking to the left" while running "forwards". Almost like the dragging the screen was an unnecessary hassle.

I noticed that. On a mouse aiming and viewpoint are one and the same, but this isn't remotely true in real life. Case in point: Time Crisis.
Aiming with the Wiimote is a much more lifelike experience, but it then can degrade turning. They haven't implimented a system that works out whether you want to turn or just point a gun in that direction.
The plus side is that turning isn't as much of a necessity, but we feel it is because of what we're used to. In older FPSs having a soldier in the middle of the screen to shoot him was an absolute necessity, now it isn't.
Assuming there are turning issues purely because Matt's crosshair wasn't in the centre of the screen is also a poor conclusion. More likely his hand was just resting, and it happened to move the crosshair to that area. Our hands don't have neutral positions, remember.

I think you're looking at the videos the wrong way, also. It's very difficult to figure out how good an interface of this complexity is without using it.

The main question you have to ask yourself isn't "Why isn't his viewpoint snapping to centre?", but "Is he hitting everything he's aiming at?". Forget what he looks like he's trying to do and focus on whether what he's actually doing is getting results.
Ask yourself that question whilst watching Matts videos. It can be difficult to tell because there's a fair bit of lockon going on, but in that scene after he unlocks the door and those 2 floating robots appear you'll notice he locks on to the first one and destroys it, but destroys the 2nd with great efficiency and accuracy without a lockon.

Analysing the videos in this way is better than the way most people seem to be doing it, but at the end of the day the only way we'll really know is when we try it for ourselves. That's just how interfaces work.

[quote=Vampiro]But I think it is a valid complaint. This isn't exactly real life, and no one's used to shaky in-game hands (unless you play MGS3). So it just seems odd that you have something that's capable of pin-point accuracy that fails due to human flaws. I just don't think it needs to be THAT sensitive.

That's just the point, isn't it? Better aiming takes more skill, otherwise every FPS in existence would have a Metroid-style lockon.

Again, this is something we'll have to try and something developers will get better with as time goes on. When the VP of Epic said the initial set of Wii games would be "gimmicky, I-wish-I-hadn't-bought-it" titles he was right in principle, there's definately going to be a lot of tweaking going on. But it's really important to realise that Wii games at this stage are WAY more developed than DS games were at their E3, and devs got used to the touch screen extremely quickly.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I already did, motion sickness.


Er, yet I've never once got motion sickness from a PC game. Which was my point. Nintendo wanted something that could mimic a mouse when it came to FPS games, but they aren't delivering. I can't see motion sickness being a big problem, because you whip around the screen constantly in a PC FPS with little problems. My question was, why can't they make it so it acts like a mouse and NOT cause motion sickness? I know that it will move a bit more, but so much more that it causes physical illness? Eh.


Quoted post: Assuming there are turning issues purely because Matt's crosshair wasn't in the centre of the screen is also a poor conclusion. More likely his hand was just resting, and it happened to move the crosshair to that area. Our hands don't have neutral positions, remember.


It wasn't just him. It looked like everyone who played. I've seen demos of people shifting the view around, then having to drag the screen, then move the crosshair back onto the the enemy. Plus, it was mentioned in quite a few write-ups. It seemed to be a univeral control issue. And it sounds valid.


Quoted post: The main question you have to ask yourself isn't "Why isn't his viewpoint snapping to centre?", but "Is he hitting everything he's aiming at?". Forget what he looks like he's trying to do and focus on whether what he's actually doing is getting results.
Ask yourself that question whilst watching Matts videos. It can be difficult to tell because there's a fair bit of lockon going on, but in that scene after he unlocks the door and those 2 floating robots appear you'll notice he locks on to the first one and destroys it, but destroys the 2nd with great efficiency and accuracy without a lockon.


I'm not debating whether he's hitting everything he wants to, but rather, why does it have to take so long to turn? I admit, when you're inside the invisible box, everything looks spot-on. There's no doubt about that. But the problems lies in when you leave that box.

I just think, once they, IF they, fix this issue, there shouldn't be a need for lock-on. That really shouldn't be in this game.

Quoted post:
That's just the point, isn't it? Better aiming takes more skill, otherwise every FPS in existence would have a Metroid-style lockon.


You're literally pointing at what you want to shoot. There's shouldn't be an immense amount of skill involved. It should feel like a mouse, not like an analogue stick - which it seems to once you leave that box.



Quoted post: Again, this is something we'll have to try and something developers will get better with as time goes on. When the VP of Epic said the initial set of Wii games would be "gimmicky, I-wish-I-hadn't-bought-it" titles he was right in principle, there's definately going to be a lot of tweaking going on. But it's really important to realise that Wii games at this stage are WAY more developed than DS games were at their E3, and devs got used to the touch screen extremely quickly.


Oh of course. There's a learning curve even for the developers, and I do expect it to get much better once time passes. But... this is Metroid. I really expect them to get it right the first time. Even if they have to delay it.



Anyways, my point is simply this: there has to be a better control setup. When you're in the box, bam, the Wii has it going. But they need to figure out a control scheme outside of that. That's all.



Posted by Drewboy64

One reason you can't have a fixed crosshair is because of the issue taht you would move the controller, and you can't "pick it up" and recenter it, the way you can with a mouse. They could make the invisible box smaller, making it more PC-like, however.

The controller issues in Red Steel I see is the slowness/sluggishness. You should be able to turn quickly and look around quickly so you can move faster.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: One reason you can't have a fixed crosshair is because of the issue taht you would move the controller, and you can't "pick it up" and recenter it, the way you can with a mouse. They could make the invisible box smaller, making it more PC-like, however.


The only reason you need to do that on a PC is because your mouse eventually goes over the mousepad.



Posted by Drewboy64


Quoting Vampiro: The only reason you need to do that on a PC is because your mouse eventually goes over the mousepad.

Same thing will happen with the remote. You'll move it to the side, and when your arm will be too far out.

I just realized that they used an idea of mine! I mean, I didn't send it in to them or anything, but it's something i thought about; when you pull the remote closer to you, your gun becomes aligned, like aiming wiht a real gun, or it zooms up or wahtever... at least it seemed like it, cause the guy would pull the remote closer sometimes.



Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro]Er, yet I've never once got motion sickness from a PC game. Which was my point. Nintendo wanted something that could mimic a mouse when it came to FPS games, but they aren't delivering. I can't see motion sickness being a big problem, because you whip around the screen constantly in a PC FPS with little problems. My question was, why can't they make it so it acts like a mouse and NOT cause motion sickness? I know that it will move a bit more, but so much more that it causes physical illness? Eh.

Oh come on now, it's really quite simple. It's far easier to keep a mouse steady on a desk than it is to keep your hand steady in the air.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Are your hands really that shakey?




Posted by Speedfreak

...are you really this stupid? You're telling me you can keep a laser pointer fixed on the exact same position as accurately as not touching a mouse?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I'm only a foot or so away from my TV, so I don't have a problem with keeping it fairly accurate. I even just tested it out with a laser pointer and I could keep it fixed in a single spot pretty well. So I guess I must be a tad stupid.




Posted by Speedfreak

Right, well obviously they're making the game for the majority, and the majority of people don't sit a foot away from their TV. Do you see how irrelevent your point is yet?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, but you could probably adjust the sensitivity a bit to get rid of that little problem. Though my point will be truly irrelevant if they shrink the invisible box in games like Metroid, or make it so you don't have to drag the screen. Either way.




Posted by Gamer

I'm so going to buy Red Steel! Plus it's going to be online.




Posted by Drewboy64

has anyone seen this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7888968777839133832 ?
The aiming looks MUCH better there than on e3, but I don't know if that's after or before e3. Hopefully after.




Posted by VirtualRealityZone


Quoting Drewboy64: has anyone seen this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7888968777839133832 ?
The aiming looks MUCH better there than on e3, but I don't know if that's after or before e3. Hopefully after.


Wow, thats truely amazing. I can't wait until I can get my hands on it. :D



Posted by Drewboy64

Agreed, I just pray taht that is what the final version's aiming is like.




Posted by Asmodean


Quoting Drewboy64: has anyone seen this video:
http;//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7888968777839133832 ?
The aiming looks MUCH better there than on e3, but I don't know if that's after or before e3. Hopefully after.


The best part was when he said "I can shoot like a real gangter."



Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Drewboy64: has anyone seen this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7888968777839133832 ?
The aiming looks MUCH better there than on e3, but I don't know if that's after or before e3. Hopefully after.


This one looks alot cleaner then E3's verson. This could be contributed to a few reasons.

A) Only one Wii, not as many signals messing up the aim.

B) They fine tuned the aiming, E3 was a test and they fixed it a bit for the interveiw.

C) Learning curve, it might of been a learning curve that people at e3 didnt get.

Still, nice to know.



Posted by Klarth

[quote=TendoAddict]
A) Only one Wii, not as many signals messing up the aim.
...

...what




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Klarth: ...

...what


Ok, a wireless controller has a signal.But in a room full of said controllers different signals can mess with you're controlls slightly.


Look, its just a guess. All I know is that it looks cleaner and its a good thing



Posted by poisonblood

I am intersted in this game. There are only a few things that need to be fixed.




Posted by Drewboy64

DOes anyone know if that is after e3? Because Idon't see why they would change that aiming, but while it said "Wii," the french guy called it the Revolution.




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Drewboy64: DOes anyone know if that is after e3? Because Idon't see why they would change that aiming, but while it said "Wii," the french guy called it the Revolution.



Ok the date on the video said it was uploaded may 20th.
E3 was may 10-12. This means it was made during or after. I would say the nameing thing is a easy slip up. I also think he had acces to a better version with some kinks worked out.



Posted by Drewboy64


Quoting TendoAddict: Ok the date on the video said it was uploaded may 20th.
E3 was may 10-12. This means it was made during or after. I would say the nameing thing is a easy slip up. I also think he had acces to a better version with some kinks worked out.


Not necessarily, the video could have been made earlier and uploaded later. But I hope you're right.

I need to find out about this video, and if it is before E3, ask ubisoft to change it back...

Hm, IGN had a video of Fran playing the same demo that they put up on may 9th, so... hopefully that's how the aiming is.



Posted by Arcadios

Dosen't look that great.




Posted by Klarth

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/imgs_1.html

A load of new screens taken only a week ago at most. I'd say it's really starting to improve.




Posted by Bebop

Apparantly theyve worked on playing issues since E3.




Posted by Speedfreak

I think this'll turn out okay. Usually when a developer, any developer, acknowledges problems and promises improvements then they'll deliver.




Posted by Drewboy64

Still, the aiming in the video above from before E3 seemed so good, like Metroid Hunters aiming. I hope you can use that style if you want.

But yeah, I'm sure Red Steel will deliver. Swords and guns in ****ing japan made by Ubisoft Paris.




Posted by Last Fog

to me this game still looks as absolutely bland and ****ty as ever. If I want to play an ugly, generic FPS with motion sensing I'd prefer just a light gun.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, it looks updated, sure, and the sword battles look a lot better... but the overall package doesn't seem too great right now. Hopefully they start showing more than that one stage.




Posted by Speedfreak

The game looks just fine in screenshots, but that new video they released makes it look really bad. I put it down the low quality of the video, to be honest. Most, if not all, Wii games look better in motion than they do in stills, seems odd that a game like Red Steel would be the opposite.


Gotta say, though, I'm getting really pissed off with 3rd party developers. Zelda looks better than all the 3rd party games right now, there's absolutely no excuse for that and it's making the system look terrible. I guess if you want to see what the Wii can do then you gotta focus squarely on 1st party titles right now. The pyrotechnics in Metroid and the bump-mapping and draw distance in ExciteTruck are exactly the level of polish that 3rd party games are missing.




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Speedfreak:
Gotta say, though, I'm getting really pissed off with 3rd party developers. Zelda looks better than all the 3rd party games right now, there's absolutely no excuse for that and it's making the system look terrible.

this seems to be a bit harsh.

A) Its hard to compare Zelda to other realese games. Nintendo is trying to make one of the BEST games in exsistance. They've had a far better head start with Wii technology and the game itself then any other developer.

b) I havent seen anything that makes the Wii look "terrible". There has been no "Giant enemy crap" of the wii thus far. Growing pains at best, but I give the benefit of the doubt. This is hardly like going from the Ps1 to the Ps2.



[quote]I guess if you want to see what the Wii can do then you gotta focus squarely on 1st party titles right now.

The first party Titles always showcased the best at realse. This is not new.


[quote]The pyrotechnics in Metroid and the bump-mapping and draw distance in ExciteTruck are exactly the level of polish that 3rd party games are missing.


I go back to the fact Nintendo has had more time and have spacific goals with each title.

The 3rd party's were probably learning the ropes when nintendo were already started.

Does that mean developers should go head on and be more orignal? yes

Yet I can see where they come from.

edit:

Re-read my post , It makes sence now.
Not to self: dont psot while drunk.



Posted by Drewboy64

[quote=Speedfreak]Gotta say, though, I'm getting really ****ed off with 3rd party developers. Zelda looks better than all the 3rd party games right now, there's absolutely no excuse for that and it's making the system look terrible.
What about Mario Galaxy? Best graphics on Wii I've seen so far. That's how all games should look.

I really want Red Steel to play better. The graphics are perfectly fine to me, but the aiming, I really just hope there's an option to make it more... well, like Metroid Hunter's aiming is. I know there will be sensitivity options, but I also hope you can change the size of the aiming box. I don't want to have to point the gun all the way to the screen to turn and shoot someone at the side of me.

But honestly, the graphics look fine, especially the reflections off of the ground in the screens and videos. I'm sure this game will turn out pretty good. Swords+Guns+Wii+Ubisoft Paris has to = something good.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: The 3rd party's were probably learning the ropes when nintendo were already started.


They're basically working with a GC. Besides the controller, there's not much to get used to.



Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: They're basically working with a GC. Besides the controller, there's not much to get used to.

Well the controller IS the big part. While the graphics arnt a big jump I can imagine growing pains with the remote.


Still, I wnt them to make it good.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Well the controller IS the big part. While the graphics arnt a big jump I can imagine growing pains with the remote.


His whole post was talking about graphics, I figured you'd be talking about the same.



Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: His whole post was talking about graphics, I figured you'd be talking about the same.



Graphics wise your right, But speedy was talking about the game in general making the Wii look bad.

I just wanted to point out that it really wasnt that bad.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Graphics wise your right, But speedy was talking about the game in general making the Wii look bad.

I just wanted to point out that it really wasnt that bad.


Pretty sure, looking back on the post again, he was only talking about the graphics:

"look better in motion than they do in stills"
"Zelda looks better than"
"The pyrotechnics in Metroid"
"the bump-mapping and draw distance"
"the level of polish"

Could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time :cookie:



Posted by Drewboy64

I heard Red Steel's sword fighting was changed to match your exact movement. This is a definate plus, but I'm still hoping they'll improve the gun aiming.




Posted by s0ul


Quoting Drewboy64: What about Mario Galaxy? Best graphics on Wii I've seen so far. That's how all games should look.



Jesus Christ you're dumb. "Looks better than any 3rd party title." You'll never guess who makes Mario!



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I heard Red Steel's sword fighting was changed to match your exact movement. This is a definate plus, but I'm still hoping they'll improve the gun aiming.


Sure didn't look like it in the new trailer. It does, however, look a lot better.



Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: Pretty sure, looking back on the post again, he was only talking about the graphics:

"look better in motion than they do in stills"
"Zelda looks better than"
"The pyrotechnics in Metroid"
"the bump-mapping and draw distance"
"the level of polish"

Could be wrong though. Wouldn't be the first time :cookie:



Oh he was.

I just used both aspects to defend the game.

I said that they are probably learning the controller rather then making it look "OMG PURDY". They focused on that more then graphics, wich I'd rather have.

I dont think we can really say how good it is since no one we know has played the game itself. BUT it seems that now that the graphics and controlls are getting better anyways

Speedy seemed to castrate the game before it even has a chance.
---

Speaking of speedy I find it hypocritical what he's saying.

In other topics he says that graphics are not nearly important then other aspects.

In here he says the game looks terrible and it digraces the wii.

Why cant we just judge when the game comes out?



Posted by s0ul


Quoting TendoAddict:

Speaking of speedy I find it hypocritical what he's saying.

In other topics he says that graphics are not nearly important then other aspects.

In here he says the game looks terrible and it digraces the wii.

Why cant we just judge when the game comes out?


How is that hypocritical? He's saying the ugly graphics are making Wii's graphical capabilities look bad, not the whole system. It's pretty apparent if you actually read it.

And if we waited for games to come out to talk about them we wouldn't have much of a forum, would we?



Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting s0ul: How is that hypocritical? He's saying the ugly graphics are making Wii's graphical capabilities look bad, not the whole system. It's pretty apparent if you actually read it.


I you Actually read what I said I state between topics.

He's making a big deal on graphis in THIS topic

in others he down plays graphics for the Wiimote controlls.

I agree with him that the game should be pritty and play good but to me he's playing both sides of the fence.

A bit hypocritical, agrable, yet still.



[quote]And if we waited for games to come out to talk about them we wouldn't have much of a forum, would we?


There is a fine line between talking about games before their done and saying they look terrible even before we play it.

Is it really a crime to say "wait till we play it" before we say it makes the wii look bad? Is it really? I doubt it.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: they look terrible even before we play it.

Is it really a crime to say "wait till we play it" before we say it makes the wii look bad? Is it really? I doubt it.


Is it a crime to watch videos of said game and realise that it actually doesn't look that great? No. He's voicing his opinion on it. Shut up.



Posted by Speedfreak

Gameplay is more important than graphics. I'd rather have GC graphics with Wii controls than an Xbox 360. That said, I was expecting significantly better graphics than GC, that hasn't been delievered yet.




Posted by Ant

I just read Matt's blog on IGN, and he said that Ubisoft said that the build that was shown at the GC wasn't really that much of an improvement of that at E3. The real big improvements will be seen at the upcoming TGS.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Let's hope. Though you would think the big improvement would come during the three month span between E3 and LGC. Rather than the one month between LGC and TGS.




Posted by Speedfreak

It did, pay attention. They made the improvements, just didn't put them into the demo.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

They showed improvements, I commented on them.




Posted by Drewboy64


Quoting s0ul: Jesus Christ you're dumb. "Looks better than any 3rd party title." You'll never guess who makes Mario!

I know. I was just saying that he mentioned all those first party games, but forgot to mention how good mario galaxy looked compared to third party games...
Dumbass.

Quoting Vampiro: Sure didn't look like it in the new trailer. It does, however, look a lot better.

That wasn't the updated version.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: That wasn't the updated version.


Huh, looked better from what I saw. At least the sword fight at the end did.



Posted by Speedfreak

Zelda easily has better graphics than Mario Galaxy.




Posted by Last Fog


Quoting Speedfreak: Zelda easily has better graphics than Mario Galaxy.
Yeah, funny how the single best looking game is also on gamecube.



Posted by Drewboy64

You really think so? Personally I think Galaxy looks much smoother and nicer. I'm not saying Zelda looks bad; it looks amazing, but I think Galaxy has the best graphics I've seen so far. The people who worked on DKJB are working on it, after all.




Posted by Last Fog

They're pretty close, but Zelda just has nicer details and lighting and water effects.




Posted by TendoAddict

I think it too early tp say wich one has better graphics. but it is safe to say zelda is in the lead. Not saying that mario galaxy doesnt look good though.




Posted by Drewboy64

Galaxy seems to have less jaggies.
Anyway, I was just watching the IGN Special that was entirely about Wii. Pretty cool, hopefull Red Steel's aiming turns out fine.
But what I'm wondering is this: can you just pull out your sword at any time and hack people apart? Because that would be awesome, but from the demo it seemed like you could only use it sometimes.
Of course, that's just a demo, so the final version could be different.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Last Fog]Yeah, funny how the single best looking game is also on gamecube.

No shit, think that's what I've been saying maybe?




Posted by Drewboy64

dang it, I need answers... I really hope Red Steel's aiming is like what they showed in the Electric Playground video.




Posted by Last Fog


Quoting Speedfreak: No shit, think that's what I've been saying maybe?
Maybe because I didn't read what you've been saying.



Posted by Bebop

I've been getting alot more excited about Red Steel than I first was.

At first I was just happy a 3rd party developer was putting the controller to a good use whilst giving Ninty a nice 'mature' game at launch to warn off anti-fanboys for a while.

Now its actually looks fun :)




Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

I'll have to disagree and say that Galaxy's graphics are better. It's like those Nike balls - it's rounder! But there really is no excuse for third party games not looking as good as Twilight Princess - that was developed for GameCube, remember?

Also, Drewboy, from what I've seen it seems like it's a lot less forgiving than most FPS games. You'll lose health quicker, and if you just go running out with a katana you're going to get shot down before you can even get near them.




Posted by TendoAddict

[quote]Also, Drewboy, from what I've seen it seems like it's a lot less forgiving than most FPS games. You'll lose health quicker, and if you just go running out with a katana you're going to get shot down before you can even get near them.


This is good to hear because

A) It makes you learn how to play. Wich is really nice in this case because were using a Wiimote. Meaning the more we learn now the less we do later.

B) It makes you aprecate the landscape. In Gun ho games you go by things so fast you never notice how much time was put in development. If you go slower you can see they really spent time into where your fighting.

C) It supports a real life FPS feeling, wich help nintendo look more mature. only plusses here.


I hope its a challenge, maybe not a Devil May Cry hard, but enough that you feel happy for yourself.




Posted by Bebop

I too think Galaxy looks better than TP. The shiney oil surface is lovely :)

Tendo makes a few good points. I myself will admire the attention put into levels. Half Life 2 is a game where the player speeds through and misses the dedication put into the landscapes.

I dont really agree with the first point. I can see what you mean but each game will play differently.




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoted post: I dont really agree with the first point. I can see what you mean but each game will play differently.


But keep in mind that while the game itself is the same genre the way we play it is way different. In every FPS you have general rules you have to do, learning how to do this on a new controller. Knowing how to doge bullets, aim, and shot guys wont be the same walk in the park we once knew.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Harder games were you're forced to go slower don't automatically mean you're able to see more. Chances are, you'll be spending most of your time hiding behind a wall or focusing in on certain enemies just trying to stay alive. The harder the game is, the less you can appreciate graphically, because it doesn't seem as important. You just don't have the opportunity. This isn't always the case, but usually it is it seems.




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: Harder games were you're forced to go slower don't automatically mean you're able to see more.
True but its better then the gun ho fast pace games that you bast through rooms in blinks. While it doesnt make you focus on the look when you look back at playing the game itself you can realise it was there.

[quote]Chances are, you'll be spending most of your time hiding behind a wall

Hiding behind objects help you see the amount of time put into the game. Are you hidnign Behind Empty oil barrel A B or C. Or are you going room to room with a unique exsperince in each room.


Quoted post: The harder the game is, the less you can appreciate graphically, because it doesn't seem as important.


But when you look back at playing the game you do realise it and it helps the game overall. We get a one track mind when we play but if you realise where you were playing at after your done it makes a mark.

[quote]You just don't have the opportunity. This isn't always the case, but usually it is it seems.


Well I never ment it to sound like You stoped mid game and looked around.

I mean that the enviroment effects the play nand that affect how you think of the game later.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: True but its better then the gun ho fast pace games that you bast through rooms in blinks. While it doesnt make you focus on the look when you look back at playing the game itself you can realise it was there.


Most of those games, like Halo, don't have pretty environments anyways. RedSteel is an ugly game so far so it doesn't matter. I won't want to look around. However, a good balance was Metroid Prime. Easy, but slow paced. Then again, it wasn't an FPS, so that might explain it. Also, Call of Duty 2. Wasn't that easy, but the environment was used in a way that you had to look at it and watch for the slightest movement. It was always different and unique, so you cared to look around, because you had to. Doubt Red Steel will be that way.

Quoted post:
Hiding behind objects help you see the amount of time put into the game. Are you hidnign Behind Empty oil barrel A B or C. Or are you going room to room with a unique exsperince in each room.


I barely understood that. But does it matter? You're still looking at a crate.

Quoted post:
But when you look back at playing the game you do realise it and it helps the game overall. We get a one track mind when we play but if you realise where you were playing at after your done it makes a mark.


What?

Quoted post:
Well I never ment it to sound like You stoped mid game and looked around.

I mean that the enviroment effects the play nand that affect how you think of the game later.


No ****. But if the game is brutal, you're more focused on cover, health, and where enemies are. The enviroment comes secondary to everything else, it's only there to hide people who will kill you. That's the problem. You don't care about the little details because you have more important things to focus on.



Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

Which is precisely why I'm not bothered about graphics in a game.

I can't see how you can call Red Steel ugly, though. It's not beautiful, but it's not something I'd be disgusted at.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Which is precisely why I'm not bothered about graphics in a game.

I can't see how you can call Red Steel ugly, though. It's not beautiful, but it's not something I'd be disgusted at.


I'm willing to admit I'm a graphics-whore. They're ugly because I've seen way better... on the Gamecube. I mean, the bullet-holes look like they're made in paper, the enemies look like bad cut-outs, and the explosions and water effects look terrible. But, that's my opinion.



Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

Fair enough, the water effects look terrible. But if you want to see bad fire effects, look at Saints Row.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Heh, I can forgive because the explosions themselves are nice and so is just about everything else. It just annoys me when pretty much everything looks subpar. At this point, I won't accept a below average FPS graphically. It just shouldn't exist.




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: Most of those games, like Halo, don't have pretty environments anyways. RedSteel is an ugly game so far so it doesn't matter. I won't want to look around. However, a good balance was Metroid Prime. Easy, but slow paced. Then again, it wasn't an FPS, so that might explain it. Also, Call of Duty 2. Wasn't that easy, but the environment was used in a way that you had to look at it and watch for the slightest movement. It was always different and unique, so you cared to look around, because you had to. Doubt Red Steel will be that way.

Well since mine and your idea of graphics and their worth is different I cannot really complain with you. I hardly think its UGLY, but if you do Im not gonna try and change your mind.

All I can really say is you dont quite know till you play.( but specualtion is just so fun.)


[quote]I barely understood that. But does it matter? You're still looking at a crate.

I may of said that a little jumlbed. Ive played a ton of games wich made me do they same things over and over with similar objects each time. Im saying if they mix it up from level to level people will apriciate the time put into development.

[quote]No ****. But if the game is brutal, you're more focused on cover, health, and where enemies are. The enviroment comes secondary to everything else, it's only there to hide people who will kill you. That's the problem. You don't care about the little details because you have more important things to focus on.


yeah thank you captain obvious. Im not saying While your playing. We get it, when you want to live you dont get a **** about what things look like. But after your done saving the day you realise how the graphics and the development of the levels really affect how fun it is.


Lets take Half Life 2. In the game you dont really give two ****s about how the water looked. But when every one reviewd the game they said how great the graphics were. They metion this because it really does matter in the Overall game.

Im hoping that red steal will show case some good wii moments by being a slower paced game. (and maybe up the graphics by launch) Even if right now it doesnt look like end all Realisitic FPS's it still means alot. The First FPS on a system means alot for the others to come.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Well since mine and your idea of graphics and their worth is different I cannot really complain with you. I hardly think its UGLY, but if you do Im not gonna try and change your mind.

All I can really say is you dont quite know till you play.( but specualtion is just so fun.)


Fine, they're not ugly, but they're not good. You can't possibly tell me they are. Especially when other Wii/GameCube games look FAR better. Plus, I do know because I have eyes. At this point in time, it doesn't look good. Simple as that.


Quoted post: I may of said that a little jumlbed. Ive played a ton of games wich made me do they same things over and over with similar objects each time. Im saying if they mix it up from level to level people will apriciate the time put into development.


What does that have to do with anything... besides being ****ing obvious?


Quoted post: yeah thank you captain obvious. Im not saying While your playing. We get it, when you want to live you dont get a **** about what things look like. But after your done saving the day you realise how the graphics and the development of the levels really affect how fun it is.


What the **** are you talking about? No ****ing ****. Who would have thought graphics and level design enhance a game's enjoyment? And what the hell do you mean by "not while you're playing"? Uh, shouldn't I be able to realise "hey this game is beautiful, this is fun!" while I'm playing? Yeah. Chances are, if you missed something while playing, you won't be able to reflect on it after you're done playing. And I'm talking about detail, not general eye-candy. I can see that a game looks amazing without noticing half of what's on screen. So what a game looks like does matter.


Quoted post: Lets take Half Life 2. In the game you dont really give two ****s about how the water looked. But when every one reviewd the game they said how great the graphics were. They metion this because it really does matter in the Overall game.


Funny, because immediately once I got on the aircraft, I judged the water effects. Why? Because I rarely had to worry about cover or health. I had ample time to look around and take in my environment. I never said graphics don't matter, because, surprise, they do. I said you won't be paying attention to every little detail when you're one bullet away from dying.


And for ***'s sake, learn some ******* grammar and use a spellcheck.



Posted by Drewboy64

Regarding the swords during gunfights thing, I still would like them to give you the option of using a sword. There should be parts where you can use either sword or gun, not where they force you to use etiher/or.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Using a sword as a melee atack would be pretty cool...




Posted by Cruxis

honestly I could give a rat's *** less about the graphics (as long as they look around as good as halo 2). I think that nintendo has somthing special here, this game has the potential to really show off what the wii is capable of, and even more. It gives over weight people (like my freinds), a excuse to get in shape. Now all I need to do if someone who trades souls for money, I need a extra $50 for redsteel:) . I hope that more titles like it come around in the future, who knows. Technology like this placed in a game such as soul caliber could revolutionize fighting games as we know it. Also, knowing nintendo they are most likely indevering into motion sensative camera technology (such as sony's I-Toy), this with the motion sensative controllers and such, could make gaming fully interactive & outstandingly engaging.




Posted by Speedfreak

As far as I know, the sword can be used any time you want.




Posted by Cruxis

You know, I would like to see a whip in this game. Castlevania games could really benifit from somthing like that, but I think this game would really benifit aswell from a whip like weapon. It just seems the wii mote is perfect for that, I only hope the wii is capiable of producing physics like that.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

A whip sounds terribly out of place in Red Steel. And just about any game for that matter. Who brings a whip to a gun fight?




Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: Fine, they're not ugly, but they're not good. You can't possibly tell me they are. Especially when other Wii/GameCube games look FAR better. Plus, I do know because I have eyes. At this point in time, it doesn't look good. Simple as that.



What does that have to do with anything... besides being ****ing obvious?



What the **** are you talking about? No ****ing ****. Who would have thought graphics and level design enhance a game's enjoyment? And what the hell do you mean by "not while you're playing"? Uh, shouldn't I be able to realise "hey this game is beautiful, this is fun!" while I'm playing? Yeah. Chances are, if you missed something while playing, you won't be able to reflect on it after you're done playing. And I'm talking about detail, not general eye-candy. I can see that a game looks amazing without noticing half of what's on screen. So what a game looks like does matter.



Funny, because immediately once I got on the aircraft, I judged the water effects. Why? Because I rarely had to worry about cover or health. I had ample time to look around and take in my environment. I never said graphics don't matter, because, surprise, they do. I said you won't be paying attention to every little detail when you're one bullet away from dying.


And for ***'s sake, learn some ******* grammar and use a spellcheck.


Fair enough

*taps out*



Posted by Klarth


Quoting Vampiro: A whip sounds terribly out of place in Red Steel. And just about any game for that matter. Who brings a whip to a gun fight?





Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

He's the exception. He's always the exception.

But yeah, it's about a game that's supposed to present the Japanese culture from an outsiders prospective. idk, do they use whips regularly in japan? Though the mechanic itself would be pretty interesting, what with the wiimote and all.




Posted by TendoAddict

[quote]But yeah, it's about a game that's supposed to present the Japanese culture from an outsiders prospective. idk, do they use whips regularly in japan? Though the mechanic itself would be pretty interesting, what with the wiimote and all.

I cheaked, whips are not japanese. but I could still see it being in the game (pr a wii game in general).

But in Red Steel, a game with guns and swords, a whip is out of place. A whip hurts but is not effective for stopping free motion foes.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: but I could still see it being in the game (pr a wii game in general).



I could definitely see it in a CV game. In fact, that would be plain awesome.



Posted by TendoAddict


Quoting Vampiro: I could definitely see it in a CV game. In fact, that would be plain awesome.



And also Kinda Kinky



Posted by Drewboy64

Speaking of kinky whips in Japan, maybe you could be Hard Gay!

Anyway, yeah. I wonder what other weapons are going to be in REd Steel, actually. Grenades, maybe snipe rifles?




Posted by Drewboy64

HOLY CRAP THIS GAME LOOKS GOOD
http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/vids_1.html




Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

Wow. It's looking a lot better than the LGC build, that's for darn skippy.




Posted by Drewboy64

And check this out! weilding knife + gun!
http://media.wii.ign.com/media/821/821973/img_3914533.html




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Nice to see something other than the same level again...




Posted by Cruxis

I heard somthing intresting from a friend of mine today, who happens to be one of those obsessed nintendo Wii-ners (No pun intended). He works at EBgames and he mentioned that he heard a rumor that nintendo was planning on including a copy of Red Steel when you by a wii in japan this holiday, a sort of bundle pack if you may. Now I know that the USA/Canadian console will include a copy of Wii-Sports, but you never now. Nintendo might come to there senses and offer a Red Steel/wii bundle here......eventually:(.

On a side note: A week ago I read in a magazine, that Nintendo-Exects are trying to buy rights to the upcoming XBOX 360 Indie Anna Jones (For give the spelling), so they too, can have a Wii port......I think they finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. Or they have listened to people like me and the other 100 thousand Whip obsessed wii fans. Either way I can't wait to test that "Whip at a Gun fight" theory....I only hope they offer Life Insurance in that particular game?:D




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: nintendo was planning on including a copy of Red Steel when you by a wii in japan this holiday, a sort of bundle pack if you may. Now I know that the USA/Canadian console will include a copy of Wii-Sports, but you never now.


Not going to happen.



Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

I can't even see Red Steel selling well in Japan.

A game about an American interpretation of Japanese honour, made by French people? Nope.




Posted by Speedfreak

Simply being an FPS will make it sell poorly in Japan.




Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

I prefer my reasoning.




Posted by Cruxis

I have a question for you Vampiro.
How can someone so obviously UN-grim logon to the internet and change into such a mean spirited individual?
Obviously you don’t act like this in your day to day life; around friends, family, the work place and the rest of society. How can someone so nice, 360 into such a jeckle?
Where I am from you never judge others before judging your self, and more so, where I’m from we have a little thing called humility. Ever heard of Southern-Hospitality? It’s when someone is willing to give you the shirt off there back (even if its there only one) if they see a fellow human being in need. It doesn’t matter if that person is some Foul Mouthed City Brat or a Yokel down the road.
It would serve you well to learn so manners. Where is your sense of humor? Your compassion? The ability to not assume that as soon as you meet someone everything they say or do is Negative or socially Fo`pa. Not everyone is a skin-head, waiting to bash your beliefs and principles. Never cast the first Stone, further more, watch your tongue. A foul mouth is a sign of an unhappy person with a bleak outlook on life.
What is the point of even living if you cant have faith enough in others, much less forgive them?
Stop being so rude, crude, mean, degrading and let people that kind side of you. The real you, that light that makes people feel comfortable and not un-easy. You said before, that you did some charity work. Unless you where on probation, You did that work For free, correct. That means you did something nice for others, without asking for something in return.
You tend to argue and insult people over little, trivial stuff (not that you are the only one). Lighten up a little, get a sense of humor. Being so sanicle all the time is no way to live your life. Besides, we are all on this little rock together. None of us are on this earth for a very long time anyway, so lets make the best of it. Stop arguing and fighting with people and try to have a little fun ( hopefully not at the expense of others). I know you have it in you to be nice for a change, why don’t you try it out. You might surprise your self.




Posted by Speedfreak

FPSs are only really popular in America. 6 million of the 8 million Halo 2 games sold were in the US. It's not that Japan doesn't like guns, it's just that America really does.




Posted by Bebop

[IMG]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055012400.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055014103.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055015400.jpg[/IMG]

[URL="http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055012400.jpg"]Wow[/URL]. [URL="http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055014103.jpg"]Red Steel[/URL] has [URL="http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055015400.jpg"]improved.[/URL]




Posted by Drewboy64

^ Yeah, those screens look amazing. Definately buying this on launch.




Posted by Speedfreak

Edited Bebops post to include the pictures.




Posted by TendoAddict

Im glad it improved alot but Im not surpised. I can clearly tell that the start of development was focused on making the game play good , not look good. Now they are clearly upping the graphics because the controlls are good.




Posted by Cruxis

[quote=Bebop][IMG]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055012400.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055014103.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055015400.jpg[/IMG]

[URL="http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055012400.jpg"]Wow[/URL]. [URL="http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055014103.jpg"]Red Steel[/URL] has [URL="http://wiimedia.ign.com/wii/image/article/736/736454/red-steel-20060928055015400.jpg"]improved.[/URL]



Wow too!

I actually thought Red Steel looked great before, but apparently The Wii is capable of producing Late-Xbox Graphics. Now if they can only leave this halo 2/ninja Gaiden level of graphics and pull off somthing worthy of its Processing power. But Still, even if they choose to leave the Graphics at the level they are currently at, There are complaints here.




Posted by Last Fog

Those pics look a lot better. But it reminds of that James Bond game that took place in Japan.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Now if they can only leave this halo 2/ninja Gaiden level of graphics


Except Ninja Gaiden 2 looks better than most next-gen games, and probably will for quite some time.



Posted by Bebop

Back on topic, I want to see more details on the multi. It's supposed to have it but I still hear nothing.




Posted by Drewboy64

Yeah, I'd like to see multi too. I'm pretty sure 4-player has been confirmed, but there might not be online :(

Anyway, there are some new screens and vids of the new Red Steel.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123317




Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

wate wut? Multiplayer? Where have you heard this?




Posted by Bebop


Quoting Wings: wate wut? Multiplayer? Where have you heard this?


Thats the thing. i havent heard anything official but all the gossip is saying it is.



Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

I don't even see how that would work.




Posted by Bebop

...the screen gets divided into 4..




Posted by Flounder

its confirmed, there is multiplayer http://www.ubi.com/US/Games/Info.aspx?pId=4454

now we just all wait for the best of it, wifi. sad to say (because i pre-ordered it), i think there will not be wifi for this launch game. but we can still hope




Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

Oh man. Oh, man. Can't wait.

Of course, the specifics of 'split-screen multiplayer' indicate no online.

Yet.




Posted by Bebop

I'm fine with offline. I'm going to be playing Wii with friends as soon as I get it.




Posted by WILLETH FOR MONTHS

Oh absolutely, me too. But I know a guy in America who is getting Wii as his first console since the Genesis, and he's getting Red Steel at launch. It'd be cool to play against him.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

There won't be wifi.




Posted by Bebop


Quoting Drewboy64: Yeah, I'd like to see multi too. I'm pretty sure 4-player has been confirmed, but there might not be online :(

Anyway, there are some new screens and vids of the new Red Steel.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123317


From what I can see it's really improved and more fast paced. A guy manages to turn almost all the way around in what seems only a second.



Posted by Drewboy64

I think you can change the aiming box from "wide" to "narrow," but my brother said he thoguht that was for sword fighting movements.




Posted by Bebop

It would be wierd if it was just for one or the other. But from video I've seen of people playing theres no real aiming problems. Still eager to see for myself though.

My favorite thing about this game is that the hand holding the gun reacts to titlting too. So it really is mimicking where and how you're holding the controller. Its a good little touch.




Posted by Drewboy64

Still, I don't understand why they couldn't have given an option to use a small aiming window, like the kind they used before E3. It's very stupid.

But I may just get this; it seems like a fun singleplayer experience, and the multiplayer could a satisfying, if not too indepth, thing.

I may just get Call of Duty 3, but the graphics are absolute trash and there's no multiplayer, but the singleplayer is intense and the controls are good.




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Drewboy64:
I may just get Call of Duty 3, but the graphics are absolute trash and there's no multiplayer, but the singleplayer is intense and the controls are good.


We don't know that. Nintendo's page says "Number of players: To Be Determined"



Posted by Drewboy64

If it has multiplayer, the deal is sealed. THe graphics are chode-quality, but hey, that'll be great.

If not, I may just get Red Steel... It seems golden-eye esque, but why can't they just have better controls?? :(
...Although, in those vidoes from our jeuxish french friends, it seems like higher sensitivity (which mkaes you turn faster) is effective.




Posted by Dexter

Red Steel with better controls? What's wrong with them? The control style is what I'm most excited about when it comes to the game.

I think Nintendo would've been much better off having wi-fi at launch. I don't even understand the wait. Can anyone explain that to me?

I couldn't imagine being half as excited with Call of Duty 3 without the online feature. Single player is fun and all, but once that's done, it's done. Online carries infinite replay value.




Posted by Drewboy64

If COD3 has splitscreen only, I'll still be happy. Anyway, I don't like red steel's controls, it's just not fluidy enough. I want something more ike Metroid Hunters. It would still be precise with a small aiming box, so I don't see why they dont give you an option.




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Dexter]
I think Nintendo would've been much better off having wi-fi at launch. I don't even understand the wait. Can anyone explain that to me?

I believe Speedfreak explained it pretty good in the Red Steel Multiplayer thread:

[QUOTE=Speedfreak]
You said Wii is capable of online play. This is wrong, it currently isn't. If it was, Red Steel would be online. Poké:

[QUOTE=Speedfreak]Developers cannot make online Wii games for launch, they aren't being given the networking libraries. As a launch title Red Steel cannot go online, and the developers would have liked to impliment it.


And what's this "aiming box" you keep going on about Drew? You mean a little aiming cursor?



Posted by Dexter

Pokemon is a net infrastructure test? That's not even going to be released for another, what, 4 months? That'll do plenty of damage, I'm sure. Online play is too popular to be pushed back so much. It should be a huge priority.

Red Steel 2 in August of 2007 please.




Posted by Drewboy64

The aiming box is an invisible section on the screen. Within the box, you do NOT turn, but your reticule moves.

Because it would be impossible to recenter the cursor, using an aiming box is necessary for Wii. However, a smaller aiming box, such as the kind used in Metroid Hunters (I think it used one, but it wouldn't be necessary) or Call of Duty 3 would allow more PC-esque controls, thus enabling quicker turning and looking.

Red Steel uses a large aiming box, so you can aim, but you have to go very near the edge to turn, thus creating a sluggish control style, as though your reticule is swimming through molasses and fat ladies.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: We don't know that. Nintendo's page says "Number of players: To Be Determined"


It's launch. Thus, not online.

Quoted post:
And what's this "aiming box" you keep going on about Drew? You mean a little aiming cursor?


Invisible box. Inside you aim without moving the screen, outside you drag the screen to move.



Posted by Drewboy64

Here's a half-assed but pointed diagram of how Red Steel's aiming box is, and how it SHOULD be.
[IMG]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/Drewboy64/mp3asdf.jpg[/IMG]




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Vampiro V. Empire: It's launch. Thus, not online.


I never said it was online. I was reffering to whether it was multiplayer or not.

EDIT: OH! I think I get it now. Thanks Drew! :)



Posted by Drewboy64

Yeah, hopefully COD3 for Wii has multiplayer.

I wish developers would have a bit more common sense or a bit less lazyass *****es.




Posted by Dexter

I don't see why the Wii version of Call of Duty 3 wouldn't have multiplayer. It just won't have online.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I never said it was online. I was reffering to whether it was multiplayer or not.


Oh, who cares then. Whether it is or not it's still garbage.



Posted by Drewboy64

garbage? How so (besides graphics)? I heard single player in the COD games were really intense and lengthy.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Garbage compared to the 360 version... the console it was meant to be played on.




Posted by Drewboy64

Hm, I have a 360, so... Maybe I should just wait for someone like Nintendo to get a real FPS out.




Posted by Dexter

The graphics are actually a lot better now for the Wii, so that aspect doesn't bother me. It all comes down to the online feature, really. It's the best feature of the games for me so it takes the whole point away getting it for the Wii. The single player is fun, yes, but you'll always be missing the best part if you go for the Wii version.

I agree with Vampy. The Wii version is garbage. Nintendo better get their act together and get their wi-fi on the way. I would have waited and got Call of Duty 3 for the Wii if it was online.

Awesome game, by the way. At least for the 360. I haven't bothered much with the single player mode, but online is some intense, enjoyable stuff.




Posted by Drewboy64

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/815/815492/vids_1.html

You sure about the graphics? Watch the second video.




Posted by Dexter

hmm. Still better than it used to be, definitely not as good as the 360 graphics.




Posted by Bebop

The graphics are still wank




Posted by Speedfreak

I thought we established that the single player was better on Wii because of the better controls and immersion, and it was just the online multiplayer that made the 360 version better?




Posted by Drewboy64

If it's online play that's it, and COD3 has splitscreen, I'll have no problem getting the Wii version. I want to try out the wii controls, even though I've got a 360.




Posted by Dexter

I think there will be other games along the way to try out the Wii controls. One day we will have our fill, and I couldn't waste an opportunity like Call of Duty for it. And how exactly will the single-player mode be better on the Wii? Just for the controls?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I thought we established that the single player was better on Wii because of the better controls and immersion, and it was just the online multiplayer that made the 360 version better?


Nah. Nothing was established.



Posted by Drewboy64

I wanna see more reviews. The fact that the NGamer thing gave it a 90 is kind of surprising to me.

Usually I don't listen to reviews, but I might want to for Red Steel.




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Drewboy64: I wanna see more reviews. The fact that the NGamer thing gave it a 90 is kind of surprising to me.

Usually I don't listen to reviews, but I might want to for Red Steel.


Nah I am not going to bother for reviews for Red Steel. I will probably jump right in on this one, especially since it's something totally new, and it looks so fun at that!



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

It's not totally new. The controls are new, but the game isn't. Don't exaggerate.




Posted by Dexter

I'm fine with jumping in with Red Steel, regardless of the reviews it receives. I actually wish there were a few more decent launch games for the Wii. I'd gladly get more than Zelda and Red Steel if there were more to get.




Posted by Bebop

I'm actually starting whether to question if NGamer have played enough of it. They said you cant use swords in mutlipayer but some Ubi Soft guys on On the Spot' said you can. I hope you can.




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Bebop: I'm actually starting whether to question if NGamer have played enough of it. They said you cant use swords in mutlipayer but some Ubi Soft guys on On the Spot' said you can. I hope you can.


Ha ha, yeah that would be awesome! Slice up your friends in the multiplayer. I would probably choose the sword all the time. Reminds me of using the crowbar in Half Life.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

You can use swords in MP. It's like a melee attack.




Posted by Bebop

Do you have a link proving you can use swords in Metroid Prime?




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

too lazy to look. It's everywhere though.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Vampiro V. Empire]Nah. Nothing was established.

Okay then.

*Wii previews*

"The Wii version is way more fun."

How about now?




Posted by Drewboy64

The sword used in multiplayer is used to dash and stun people, that's it.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127227\
(note: red steel is mentioned near the beginning in the video posted in that forum. but BEWARE, they talk about zelda at the end, so just close out of that if you dont want any spoilers.)




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Drewboy64: The sword used in multiplayer is used to dash and stun people, that's it.


WHAT? That's really disappointing! I wanted to slash and hack my opponents to death in multiplayer. :( Oh well... the sword is cool all the same.



Posted by Drewboy64

Yeah, it is a bit dissappointing, but at least they've got swordplay at all. I think i may have to get this game, single palyer seems really fun. Just hope higher sensitivity helps.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Okay then.

*Wii previews*

"The Wii version is way more fun."

How about now?


No... not really. The controls are more than fine as is, and playing with 24 other people on gigantic maps make up for anything it make lack. Though you of all people should know not to go by gaming sites, right? Gears of War, etc.


Anywho, I just saw the american commercial for Red Steel... worst commercial ever.



Posted by Drewboy64

Just wanted to bring this up, IGN Wii says COD3 has 1-2 players, so I'm guessing co-op. I'm too tired to read to confimr this, though

edit: oog, it says 1-2 for all of them.




Posted by boomstick

At first I didn't like the look of this game but the more I see and hear about it I'll beginning to like what it more, it'll probably be one of the first things I check out on the Wii




Posted by Drewboy64

If it weren't for the aiming, I would know for sure that i'd be buying this game.




Posted by Bebop

I was thinking about the sword fighting and how it isnt 1:1. Not really a bad thing is it? It doesnt need to exactly mimic your sword movements when your basically going to be doing vertical, horizontal or diagonal attacks anyway. its not like you'd be fighting an opponent in real life and move it in an S shape. Thos straigh movements are the ideal attacking method so I dont see this as an issue anymore.




Posted by Proto Man


Quoting Drewboy64: Just wanted to bring this up, IGN Wii says COD3 has 1-2 players, so I'm guessing co-op. I'm too tired to read to confimr this, though

edit: oog, it says 1-2 for all of them.


It's official, CoD3 for Wii is 1 player. Nintendo.com finally updated it's info.


Quoting Bebop: I was thinking about the sword fighting and how it isnt 1:1. Not really a bad thing is it? It doesnt need to exactly mimic your sword movements when your basically going to be doing vertical, horizontal or diagonal attacks anyway. its not like you'd be fighting an opponent in real life and move it in an S shape. Thos straigh movements are the ideal attacking method so I dont see this as an issue anymore.


Wait, isn't 1:1? Could you explain that a little better please? What does that mean, and how does it affect the sword play?



Posted by s0ul

You're kinda thick, huh!




Posted by Drewboy64

1:1 means the movements put on screen in the game are the same movements as what the player is making. In red steel, it takes your movements and puts it into a basic move.

So, in 1:1 if you slashed diaganolly left to right, it would do that on screen, exactly as you did. In red steel, it would have a diagonal slash, but wihtout all the nuances of your movement. It'd just be a subsituted, more basic pre-made movement.




Posted by Drewboy64

1:1 replicates your EXACT movements, where as red steel's sword fighting does not.




Posted by s0ul

Edit button edits comments, Post Reply button does not.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

It would be neat if you could move your sword around 1:1. Not necessarily the attacks, but just holding it and moving it, much like the gun.




Posted by Speedfreak

Something for Red Steel 2, methinks. There's no way this game isn't going to sell millions, and that pretty much ensures a sequel.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Oh yeah, it'll definitely be a franchise. RS2, now there's a game I might be looking forward to.




Posted by Drewboy64

I would love to see a sequel that uses some more common sense - better control system, etc.




Posted by Dexter

I'm more interested in a sequel with online capabilities.




Posted by Bebop

Come on someone must have Red Steel? Whats it like? Controls? Length? Graphics? Multi?




Posted by s0ul

"Come on?" I've posted like 4 times that it's ****.




Posted by Bebop

You also hated Sunshine and I didnt. Tis why I was asking other people. :)




Posted by Dexter

Controls are difficult. The learning curve might be frustrating at first and you'll never be truly satisfied with it, although you do get better the more you play. There was certainly room for improvement when it came to the sensitivity level. The game itself will remind you of an EB James Bond game. It's a decent game, but I'm sure there will be superior shooters soon. I've not finished it yet but from what I can tell the game is quite lengthy. Multiplayer isn't so great, either. I wouldn't recommend it to you, Bebop. It really doesn't seem like your type of a game. I have no regrets for getting it and am enjoying it for what it is, but I actually still play through the James Bond games so....




Posted by Bebop

I was interested in it for being much different to current FPS games in terms of setting and plot. But I basically saw it as a tech demo I'd really like to try out. Meh I'll probably give this a miss. I was more excited about Fary Cry anyway because I havent played any of those games but had always wanted to.




Posted by Dexter


Quoting Bebop: I was interested in it for being much different to current FPS games in terms of setting and plot.


It isn't. Not at all, actually. The biggest difference is simply the controls. Swordplay is fun, but the gunplay is fairly lame. Maybe Far Cry will be better, but I doubt it.



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Come on someone must have Red Steel? Whats it like? Controls? Length? Graphics? Multi?


It's decent at times and really bad at others. The controls are actually pretty bad and a poor example of what to expect from later FPSs. As for length, I believe it was average. I can't remember how long it took me, but I know I did it in one sitting. Graphics are OK actually. Solid, but nothing really pleasing to the eye.

... and multi is a throw-away. Worst part of the game in my opinion.

Oh, and skip Far Cry too. There's no way that's going to be worth the money. No FPS is going to be anywhere close to as good as it should be for now.



Posted by Speedfreak

Actually, the controls in Far Cry are actually pretty decent, and the single player is longer than the Xbox version. There's plenty of reason to get it.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Longer doesn't mean better. What's up Far Cry for the 360? I just don't see why anyone would want to spend money on it. It's such a rental it's not even funny.

Oh, and it looks terrible.




Posted by Dexter

It doesn't look appealing to me at all, not even as a rental. It's one of those games I'd get in the distant future for 10 bucks. It doesn't even look as good as Red Steel, honestly. There'll be better FPS games in the future.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, Red Steel smacks the pants of Far Cry... and we all know how I feel about Red Steel. LOL