The Afterlife
Posted by Crazy KWell what do you believe? do you believe its real or not? Do you even think the afterlife exists?
Personally I believe there might be an afterlife. I myself can't say if its true or not, but I do believe it somewhat.
Anyways what are your views on "the afterlife"?
Posted by Mystic HeroIt resides mainly in faith or if you choose to belive. I don't know what atheists think about the afterlife, btu for those of whom I have tlaked to they belive no such thing exists.
Anyway, as for me I believe that it definately does exist. Why? Well mainly my religion says that there is indeed a heaven so I believe whole heartedly that a heaven most definately exists. There is no way to prove this concept, one must only believe that there is one, and I for one can safely say that I do belvie that there is an afterlife such as heaven where spirits are free to live in peace for all eternity.
Posted by Lord of SpamI wrote a 10 page essay in one hour today for an exam in my Philosophy of Religion class. When I'm not tired and being amused by 4chan, I'll come back and kick this threads fuckin' ass.
Until then, suffice it to say that I think that once you're done, you're done. After death you're nothing but worm food.
Posted by GameMiestroIt doesn't matter whether there's an afterlife or not, since it's impossible to disprove it, and any attempt to prove it through material means would be equally folly. However, it is necessary, because without an afterlife, it wouldn't make sense that there would there be any form of divine redemption. If *** was anything like in the Bible, he wouldn't want to turn the entire world into a dictatorship where you have to obey the rules while you are still on earth, without any chance for the future. And if you don't have any form of otherwordly redemption... you have either ignorant masses, or chaos.
And it doesn't make any **** sense that our consciousness just "disappears". When we sleep, we wake up. How can anyone say that death is like eternal sleep, when sleeping through 6 hours of sleep feels like exactly the same amount of time as 6000 years of sleep? The only way out of this is the "Hamlet" approach, eternal dreaming, and I have yet to see someone give a good arguement for that.
Finally, you have the "worm food" approach, as described above. But can anyone honestly say that there are NO supernatural forces in the universe? Then what creates our consciousness? If you honestly think consiousness and free will are just an illusion, well then, you've already failed giving any reasonable arguement because it is impossible to prove or disprove anything you say. What material force could possibly have enough influence to make us do right or wrong? Either come up with an answer, ignore all morals, or be a hypocrate (most already are).
I hate arguing with "ultra-athiests"... :(
Posted by Lord of SpamI didnt want to start this tonight, but you've ****ed me off.
Quoting GameMiestro: It doesn't matter whether there's an afterlife or not, since it's impossible to disprove it, and any attempt to prove it through material means would be equally folly. However, it is necessary, because without an afterlife, it wouldn't make sense that there would there be any form of divine redemption. If *** was anything like in the Bible, he wouldn't want to turn the entire world into a dictatorship where you have to obey the rules while you are still on earth, without any chance for the future. And if you don't have any form of otherwordly redemption... you have either ignorant masses, or chaos.
You start your post by begging the question that *** exists, and then continue to posit that without the chance of other worldly redemption humanity would be chaos and disorder. I take it then that you would not accept the fact that the world is largely chaotic as proof for ***'s nonexistance?
[quote]And it doesn't make any **** sense that our consciousness just "disappears". When we sleep, we wake up. How can anyone say that death is like eternal sleep, when sleeping through 6 hours of sleep feels like exactly the same amount of time as 6000 years of sleep? The only way out of this is the "Hamlet" approach, eternal dreaming, and I have yet to see someone give a good arguement for that.
Anyone that says that death is like eternal sleep is either wrong or speaking FAR too poetically to be taken literally. In point, death is nothing like sleep. In death, there is zero brain activity. However, in sleep, the mind is lit up like a Christmas tree.
You cover a lot of ground in this next chunk, so its going to get broken up a lot.:(
[quote]Finally, you have the "worm food" approach, as described above. But can anyone honestly say that there are NO supernatural forces in the universe?
I would state that there are certain things which may not be easily explainable at the current state of technological advancement. That is not to say that they are "supernatural" or "divine" by any stretch of the imagination. For instance, imagine if one were to somehow travel back in time with a TV, portable generator, and your video game console of choice. Say that you ended up in the middle ages. Using your current technology to try and amuse them, you would most likely be burned as a witch. And as well you shoudl be! There is certainly no manner of man that can trap people in small boxes aside from witches and warlocks, and they are clearly spoken against by the bible!
[quote]Then what creates our consciousness?
I'm leaning towards, oh, I dunno, CHEMICAL REACTIONS IN YOUR BRAIN. Obviously, its not completely understood yet. But, as was seen in the last example, jsut because science says "I'm not sure yet" doesnt mean that religion has the right answer.
[quote]If you honestly think consiousness and free will are just an illusion, well then, you've already failed giving any reasonable arguement because it is impossible to prove or disprove anything you say.
Where did I ever say ANYTHING even remotely close to that? And how does it follow that even if I did believe that, it doesnt follow that I wouldnbt be swayed. Just because I might think that the future is set doesnt mean that I think I know it. Perhaps you would be able to convince me that you were right, in which case I would think that you had the right answer all along.
[quote]What material force could possibly have enough influence to make us do right or wrong?
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Are you trying to say that only *** can be the source of morals? If so, I STRONGLY urge you to either withdraw that argument or be prepared to be proved wrong.:(
[quote]Either come up with an answer, ignore all morals, or be a hypocrate (most already are).
I did have an answer. It was that nothing happens since you cease to exist. Duh.
[quote]I hate arguing with "ultra-athiests"... :(
Same here. Except by "ultra-athiests" I mean "****ing moronic religious douchebags who cant see past their own ****ing restrictive dogma for long enough to even play devils ****ing advocate". Jesus, idiots like you are the reason intelligent religious people like Beej are seen as such outliers.:(
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire
Quoted post: If *** was anything like in the Bible, he wouldn't want to turn the entire world into a dictatorship where you have to obey the rules while you are still on earth, without any chance for the future. And if you don't have any form of otherwordly redemption... you have either ignorant masses, or chaos.
So your arguments against "no afterlife" is to use something that's equally impossible to prove? Also, how do you figure there would be chaos without an afterlife? How would we know? How do we know there's a G[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]d to grant us "redemption"? We don't, probably never will too. But that really changes nothing. It doesn't make us more obedient, or chaotic, all it does is give some hope. It's not a barrier or a prison, it's a belief. You really need to explain yourself better.
Quoted post:
And it doesn't make any **** sense that our consciousness just "disappears". When we sleep, we wake up. How can anyone say that death is like eternal sleep, when sleeping through 6 hours of sleep feels like exactly the same amount of time as 6000 years of sleep? The only way out of this is the "Hamlet" approach, eternal dreaming, and I have yet to see someone give a good arguement for that.
WAT IZ FIGURE OF SPEECH? Idiot. You don't actually kick a bucket when you die, you know.
Also, our consciousness is just our brain. You know how when you die your brain shuts down? Well, yeah, it doesn't "disappear", it just dies... like the rest of our body.
Quoted post:
Finally, you have the "worm food" approach, as described above. But can anyone honestly say that there are NO supernatural forces in the universe?
Anything that can't be explained by science is supernatural, right? Guess what, there was once a time when the sun rising was considered an act of g[COLOR="White"]od[/COLOR]. Same with tornadoes, growing plants, and everything else that we couldn't comprehend. But then we as a species became smarter and realised "oh wai- that's silly" so we looked into it further. Turns out, the sun doesn't actually rise, but rather, the earth spins on a tilt. We may not be able to explain these "supernatural occurrences" quite yet, but eventually we will.
Quoted post: Then what creates our consciousness?
Evolution, lol! And if you think that's hard to believe, think about this: An all-powerful being sitting there making our circulatory system. What sounds more silly: adapting, growing, and evolving into what we are today, or being made by g[COLOR="White"]od[/COLOR]dly powers?
Quoted post: If you honestly think consciousness and free will are just an illusion, well then, you've already failed giving any reasonable arguement because it is impossible to prove or disprove anything you say.
Kinda like your argument and faith in G[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]d?
Quoted post: What material force could possibly have enough influence to make us do right or wrong? Either come up with an answer, ignore all morals, or be a hypocrate (most already are).
Friends, family, society? All of those factors contribute to whether we do right or wrong. Or maybe it's a psychological problem. There's clearly no higher power helping us out with our decisions, that's for sure.
Quoted post: I hate arguing with "ultra-athiests"..
Did you read what you typed?
Posted by GameMiestroCrazyness. I was talking about several different views on the aspect, 1. that it's important, and it doesn't matter either way, which I agreed with, 2. that it's somehow like eternal sleep, which I disagreed with, and 3. there is no afterlife at all, which I disagreed with as well. Then, realizing that no matter what I said, all arguements were futile, I made that last comment.
In a perfectly logical world, the first goal of all nature would be to survive. Why would anyone risk their life if they didn't have some sort of reward afterwards? There's just something that doesn't fit in that puzzle. If emotions are just chemicals, and we're doing right ONLY to help others... then we're no different than any other animal, except we have buildings, shotguns, and cars. And I'll never believe that thats true, because I know that there is no such thing as the "selflessness" described above when it comes to life forms that can comprehend more than 2 words. Give me any example, and I can tell you a reason they did it to help themselves.
Posted by Lord of Spam
Quoting GameMiestro: Crazyness. I was talking about several different views on the aspect, 1. that it's important, and it doesn't matter either way, which I agreed with, 2. that it's somehow like eternal sleep, which I disagreed with, and 3. there is no afterlife at all, which I disagreed with as well. Then, realizing that no matter what I said, all arguements were futile, I made that last comment.
OH NOES, I GOT OWNED. BACKPEDAL! BACKPEDAL!
[quote]In a perfectly logical world, the first goal of all nature would be to survive.
Uh, in the wild, thats what it is.:/
[quote]Why would anyone risk their life if they didn't have some sort of reward afterwards?
Gee, I dont know... maybe FOR A REWARD IN THIS LIFE.
[quote]If emotions are just chemicals, and we're doing right ONLY to help others... then we're no different than any other animal, except we have buildings, shotguns, and cars. And I'll never believe that thats true, because I know that there is no such thing as the "selflessness" described above when it comes to life forms that can comprehend more than 2 words. Give me any example, and I can tell you a reason they did it to help themselves.
Okay, now you've confirmed that you're retarded. What does this have to do with ANYTHING that was being discussed? NOt only is it comepletely off topic, its friggin wrong as well. Nobody ever said that everybody was selfless, or that there was such thing as a purely selfless good deed. There is most likely going to be some sort of personal gain, but that doesnt mean that is the only reason people do something. As for being no different from other animals... the next time you're in highschool, watch a group of guys hanging out. Chances are that they will engage in goofy physical play of some sort. You know what else does that? Pretty much every young male of every mammal species. The only thing that seperates humans from critters is that we think that there is a difference.
Posted by GameMiestroI find this odd that you think I was retarded just for fooliwng up to a counter argument that you said. Here's my train of thought-
-We all know we have a consciousness. This means that this is either an illusion created by chemicals in the brain, formed through millions of years of evolution, or we are somehow spiritual, "controlling" our body, which also gives us free will. I have yet to see any reasonable, physical evidence for the former, and the simple fact that it seems real that we are a seperate, conscious entity from our bodies is more than enough evidence to prefer the ladder. 95% of the things that seem real in this universe (yes, I know the "Earth isn't flat" arguement) are probably true from any human perspective, and I have to be very suspicious against anything that doesn't seem real at all- this isn't the Matrix were talking about.
-Once I accepted this, you have two options- there's ***, or there isn't. To me having *** exist is a much better explanation for why these "spirit like entities" exist than the idea that they somehow are ever present and seperate, and clearly, the strong majority of the world seem to agree with this view (far more religious folk believe in *** than dont).
-If we've accepted ***, there is once again two possibilities. Either there is an afterlife, or there isnt. Seeing as how *** would be a perfectly logical entity, and *** appearantly likes to keep us in line, it makes much more sense that in order to get people to serve him for their entire lives, that they should do it in an attempt to get to heaven rather than avoiding punishment on Earth. After all, the Jewish and Roman officials in the New Testament seemed to be having a much better time than Jesus, and they clearly weren't on ***s "good list"... even if the Bible were absolute fallacy, it makes more sense that there would be an afterlife rather than nothing at all. Hence, thats what I'm supporting.
I can't make what I'm saying any less complicated...
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire
Quoted post: Crazyness. I was talking about several different views on the aspect, 1. that it's important, and it doesn't matter either way, which I agreed with, 2. that it's somehow like eternal sleep, which I disagreed with, and 3. there is no afterlife at all, which I disagreed with as well. Then, realizing that no matter what I said, all arguements were futile, I made that last comment.
Nah, it was all "lol I'm right, though I can't prove it!" all the way through.
Quoted post: In a perfectly logical world, the first goal of all nature would be to survive.
Look out your window. That's what actually happens. I guess this is a perfectly logical world.
Quoted post:
Why would anyone risk their life if they didn't have some sort of reward afterwards? There's just something that doesn't fit in that puzzle.
like LoS said, to gain a reward in this life. OR just because they like the feeling of helping people. Which is basically a reward in itself.
Obviously there are those who do good in hopes of going to heaven or whatever, but most people do their jobs or help old ladies for the recognition it gives. Nothing more.
Quoted post: . If emotions are just chemicals, and we're doing right ONLY to help others... then we're no different than any other animal, except we have buildings, shotguns, and cars
Wait, a fox helps older foxes across the street or cleans the den in hopes of sex? Never knew that. There's a billion things that separate us from animals, but yes, we're still animals any way you look at it. Just more advanced.
Quoted post: And I'll never believe that thats true, because I know that there is no such thing as the "selflessness" described above when it comes to life forms that can comprehend more than 2 words.
BOL the whole world is ****ing selfish you retard. Even what you talk about it selfish. You say people only do good because they want a reward in the afterlife, how is that NOT selfish? Hahaha.
Quoted post: -We all know we have a consciousness. This means that this is either an illusion created by chemicals in the brain, formed through millions of years of evolution, or we are somehow spiritual, "controlling" our body, which also gives us free will. I have yet to see any reasonable, physical evidence for the former, and the simple fact that it seems real that we are a seperate, conscious entity from our bodies is more than enough evidence to prefer the ladder.
So you've never studied biology then? Because there's a **** load of evidence in that course. Also, do explain how our consciousness is "separate" from our bodies. I'm interested. Especially how you have any proof whatsoever of this.
Quoted post: -Once I accepted this, you have two options- there's ***, or there isn't. To me having *** exist is a much better explanation for why these "spirit like entities" exist than the idea that they somehow are ever present and seperate, and clearly, the strong majority of the world seem to agree with this view (far more religious folk believe in *** than dont).
Proof that these "spirit like entities" exist?
As for the "lol tons of people believe in it" theory. More people believe in some other g[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]d or g[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]ds than those who actually believe in "THE G[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]d". Wonder why that is?
Oh, and everybody use to believe that smoking was ok for your health.
Quoted post: Seeing as how *** would be a perfectly logical entity
How the hell is G[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]d logical?
Quoted post: and *** appearantly likes to keep us in line,
Clearly. Which would explain why there's no such thing as holy wars, murders, rapes, pedophiles, et cetera. Yeah, G[COLOR="White"]o[/COLOR]d is doing a fine job.
Quoted post: it makes much more sense that in order to get people to serve him for their entire lives, that they should do it in an attempt to get to heaven rather than avoiding punishment on Earth.
That doesn't make any sense at all. Why did you do your homework in school? Was it to get into heaven? Why did you do all of your chores when you were younger? Was it to get into heaven? Why did you help a woman carry groceries to the car? Was it to get into heaven? No. It wasn't.
Quoted post: After all, the Jewish and Roman officials in the New Testament seemed to be having a much better time than Jesus, and they clearly weren't on ***s "good list"... even if the Bible were absolute fallacy, it makes more sense that there would be an afterlife rather than nothing at all.
Except they were doing what he wanted them to do. It would be unfair for them to do G[COLOR="White"]od[/COLOR]'s bidding, just so he could turn around and flip-out on them.
But I like how that has nothing to do with proving there's an afterlife. Or even giving it a good argument.
Posted by Mystic Hero
Quoting Vampiro:
Anything that can't be explained by science is supernatural, right? Guess what, there was once a time when the sun rising was considered an act of g[COLOR="White"]od[/COLOR]. Same with tornadoes, growing plants, and everything else that we couldn't comprehend. But then we as a species became smarter and realised "oh wai- that's silly" so we looked into it further. Turns out, the sun doesn't actually rise, but rather, the earth spins on a tilt. We may not be able to explain these "supernatural occurrences" quite yet, but eventually we will.
Lol that's funny. Tell me will we ever be able to explain how Jesus Christ rose form the dead? No I think not. That is pure 100% fiath alone that one must have. Kind of like if you believe that Moses really rose the ocean so the Jews could escape. We can't prove that because that itself is pure 100% faith alone. So we have to say that to some extent the supernatural does exist. True there are things in life we will eventually come to explain such as the things you mentioned, but we will NEVER be able to explain EVERYTHING. You know why? Becuase we as humans can never obtain an infinite amount of brain power to comprehend everything that there is to know,if this universe is indeed an infinite one. So yes there are some things in time we will coem to learn more about, but at the same time there are jsut things that rely on faith alone for one to believe in.
Posted by Vampiro V. Empire
Quoted post: Tell me will we ever be able to explain how Jesus Christ rose form the dead? No I think not. That is pure 100% fiath alone that one must have. Kind of like if you believe that Moses really rose the ocean so the Jews could escape. We can't prove that because that itself is pure 100% faith alone. So we have to say that to some extent the supernatural does exist.
Is there proof that anything the bible said actually happened? We can't explain what never happened :)
However you're right, it's all faith. Religion is entirely faith-based. The second it's proven right or wrong is the second religion becomes meaningless. But like I said, there's no definitive proof that some guy who performed miracles ever existed. Probably never will be. But that means nothing either way.
Quoted post: True there are things in life we will eventually come to explain such as the things you mentioned, but we will NEVER be able to explain EVERYTHING. You know why? Becuase we as humans can never obtain an infinite amount of brain power to comprehend everything that there is to know,if this universe is indeed an infinite one. So yes there are some things in time we will coem to learn more about, but at the same time there are jsut things that rely on faith alone for one to believe in.
Please, do tell me where I said "everything". Because I'm pretty certain you're putting words in my mouth to prove your ****ty argument. Don't please.
Thanks.
Posted by Kodachidark will be bright, cold will be warm, the day will have no night and the blind will have sight
:cool:
In before Sabre.
Posted by sabre
Quoting Kodachi: dark will be bright, cold will be warm, the day will have no night and the blind will have sight
:cool:
In before Sabre.
Pssh, I will not be a par to the craze.
Posted by DreadnoughtI think Edvard Munch said it best.
Quoting Edvard Mvnch: "[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif] From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity."[/FONT]
[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif][/FONT]
Posted by Lord of Spam[quote]This means that this is either an illusion created by chemicals in the brain, formed through millions of years of evolution, or we are somehow spiritual, "controlling" our body, which also gives us free will.
oh lawd is dat sum faulty logic
I fail to see why your mind being run on chemical reactions makes it an illusion.
Quoting Mystic Hero: Lol that's funny. Tell me will we ever be able to explain how Jesus Christ rose form the dead? No I think not. That is pure 100% fiath alone that one must have. Kind of like if you believe that Moses really rose the ocean so the Jews could escape. We can't prove that because that itself is pure 100% faith alone. So we have to say that to some extent the supernatural does exist. True there are things in life we will eventually come to explain such as the things you mentioned, but we will NEVER be able to explain EVERYTHING. You know why? Becuase we as humans can never obtain an infinite amount of brain power to comprehend everything that there is to know,if this universe is indeed an infinite one. So yes there are some things in time we will coem to learn more about, but at the same time there are jsut things that rely on faith alone for one to believe in.
Prove he was rezzed, and I'll try to explain it. Until then, stfu and gtfo, in that order.
Posted by SpeedfreakI don't give a toss whether there's an afterlife, frankly. If there isn't one I'm not bothered, I don't fear death at all. Dying is a whole other kettle of fish.
I fell off my bike on my paper round once, and laid on the floor for a couple of seconds before getting up and brushing myself off. Then some people from a nearby house rushed up to me telling me to take it easy, apparantly I was on the floor for about a minute. I knocked myself out.
I figure death is like that, I was never aware that I was knocked out on the floor, and I don't think I'll be aware that I'm dead either. No biggie.
So if there isn't an afterlife I'm already covered, and if there is one then great (though I'd prefer reincarnation). I try to life my life as good a person as I can, so it's not like the existence of an afterlife govorns my actions anyway. To me it's a completely irrelevent question.
Posted by PhlyntheKTWhat about Christianity it has answers that's what I believe.
Posted by Lord of SpamWhat about NOT BEING A MORON.
If you want to try to argue Christianity (or any religion for that matter) by all means, go ahead. If you are well learned and spoken, then thats pretty much all anyone could ask of you as far as a debate is concerned. But just saying LOL I LIEK -random religion- CUZ I BELIEVE IT CUZ MY MOMMY AND DADDY TOLD ME TO LOL is not a valid argument.
Posted by Crazy KPersonally I believe that when you die its just another stage of life. Then you either go to the afterlife or get reincarnated. I probably won't be scared to die based off of what Speedfreak said.
But really its hard to say if there even is an afterlife. For all we know we might just die and become nothing.
Another thing I think about from time to time is that why do I see out of these eyes and not out of someone elses? I feel as though that maybe I was someone else in the past. It would really be cool if I can get memories of my past life. I think of a lot of things like that.
Posted by PhlyntheKTHey its gone okay you don't like it I don't have to be here.