I found this video last night that some of you may be interested in. It deals with the conspiracy of 9/11. I for one dont really buy all of that stuff, but there are some parts that really do make you think. Particularly the portion concerning the pentagon.
Anyways, watch it if your interested...and if you have the time, its a little long...running a little under an hour and a half.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change
Watching in progress. Once I'm done I'll edit my opinion into this post.
Edit: I'll respond when I'm not livid.
Seen it before. Several of the points they made make sense to a certain degree.
yeah...at bare minimum...it makes you think about a few things. Like, i certainly dont think it could have been an air carrier that hit the pentagon, that whole side would have been obliterated.
Yeah, I've also seen it before.
It's quite interesting, though some of it sounds so "ZOMG CONSPIRACY" that you kinda have to laugh
Very true. I would have had a different commentator to say the least...its far too "Im a college student, i hate the government, 9/11 was planned and although im creating an incredibly biased movie i chose not to hire a voice actor to help my story sound somewhat sane". But in all fairness...it is quite interesting, and seeing as how i was 14 when it actually happened, it helped me remember a few things.
If I actually heard on the day that their explanation for the plane not being there was that it was "vapourised" then I would've called bullshit straight away. This is yet another reason to be geniunely terrified of the American government.
Heh, these things are rather entertaining; there's always strange unexplainable things happening, and of course the government hides stuff from us... to believe the government is perfect; well that isn't very smart. Sure there definitely are some government conspiracies, but as far as planning 911 and the crazy sort of stuff that goes along with that.. ah no. In this day and age, it's possible to get 'evidence' for just about anything. All it takes is computers, fake statistics, and related stuff, and you could make a strong case for just about anything. One can't believe anything that appears to be backed up by alot of proof.
I would be a little more open to these 911 conspiracies, if it weren't for the fact that the people who believe that stuff are complete loonies. It's crazy, the stuff they think. One anti-government guy I know a decent amount about is Alex Jones; he also made several movies about 911 and how the government was behind it all. Sure, when you watch the movie everything they say sounds great. But then when you research it a bit more and find out more about the guys making the movie.. well it gets a little crazy.
Out here in Illinois we get to hear Alex Jones every weekday (at least we could last summer) from 11 AM to 1 PM. And the things he says.. it's simply hilarious, I can't understand how people could believe it. Here's just a couple of his beliefs, all you have to do is listen to one of his programs and you can get a multitude of things:
(1) Jet 'plumage' is longer and wider than it was 30 years ago; it isn't exhaust, it's chemicals used to control the weather!!!
(2) The Mexicans have taken over some towns in Southern Texas and California. On a related note, in some of of the towns mear the Mexican border, if you speak English you can legally be killed. (and you'd better believe that the Feds love it)
(3) Government can track you through your cell phones.. beware, if they wanted to check, they could find out what you do 24-7.
(4) Remember the New York City transportation strike over the holidays? Well, that was planned by the government. Why? So the Feds could plant bombs in the subways. Why? so they could blackmail the country and get the Patriot Act renewed. (AJ hates the Patriot act) And now, the Patriot act is being renewed. (proof!) (AJ also is saying something about the 'secret Patriot Act II'; I'd read about it but I don't really care)
(5) Bush (and many high ranking government officials) is a member of the Bohemian Grove. What is that? Well duh, haven't you heard!!! It's a secret cult that worships the Dark Lord Molek; complete with human sacrifices and all sorts of voodoo magic!!!
(6) ooh can't forget this one. The police state has already been installed in NYC. (the rest of USA, soon) And there's also a concentration camp in NYC.
Two of Alex Jones' favorite sayings are: "We're just a bunch of thumb-sucking slaves" and "The Feds love it!"
His website: http://www.infowars.com/
A few quotes:
"There can no longer be any doubt. America is transforming into a police state. Local and state governments, megaglobal corporations and even communist dictatorships are being merged globally into a colossal world government. - Alex Jones"
or
"....The Events that Followed and a Document Procured and Analyzed by Alex Jones Revealed the Daunting Fact that the Military is Policing 77 Counties Across Central Texas."
also:
"Republican Congressman Ron Paul has gone on record with his prediction that the impeachment of George W. Bush is right around the corner but warned that in the meantime the US was slipping perilously close to a dictatorship."
He also believes something strange about the Illuminati Eye; (on our paper bills, it's the symbol of the eye and the pyramid) not sure exactly, but I think he thinks its demonic or something.
Somehow I have a hard time taking these sorts of people seriously... maybe I should just be more trustworthy.. :P :D
I find it interesting that some people will automatically discredit anything that goes against the official story purely because it's not official.
Chrono, if you think that someone spent a heck of a lot of time conjuring up fake evidence for an hour long video, why do you assume the same kind of thing is completely out of the American government's power?
How about you read my post next time :D
(A) I don't discredit the story because it's unofficial. I discredit it because the guys who make those movies are complete lunatics. If you want to believe the kind of people who think the Mexicans control towns in Texas, Bush is in a cult with human sacrificices, and the government controls the nation-wide weather (the list could go on and on), hey, go ahead. But I'd rather not.
(B) and I don't assume the government is completely perfect and that they don't make up their own stuff. [quote]of course the government hides stuff from us... to believe the government is perfect; well that isn't very smart. Sure there definitely are some government conspiracies, but as far as planning 911 and the crazy sort of stuff that goes along with that.. ah no.
You do realize that America is moving closer to a police state, right? The bush administration has pretty much eroded all of the rights to any sort of privacy that you could expect. The government can be in your house within hours based on nothing more than an FBI agent saying that he thinks you are a terrorist.
Jsut because a person is crazy does not mean that there is no truth in anything they say. I'm not saying that there are mexicans ruling Texan towns, but that doesnt mean that EVERYTHING the man says is wrong.
Besides, if we were going to ignore every person who said a lot of mystical crap that had no proof for it, all religious people would be on the fringe. So think about that next time you decide to label someone else as a nut.
[quote]Police State: A state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic, and political life of the people, especially by means of a secret police force.
Once it gets anywhere close to that, let me know. But you're right, the feds could barge intp anybody's house at any moment. But do they? I don't think so. Also, I somehow have a hard time believing that we're all being spied upon; I won't deny it could happen, and I won't deny it happens to some people, but I guess I'm dumb(?) enough to believe that the government only spies if they think they have a reason to. If the government thinks someone's up to something, I don't care if they break all the privacy rights in the world. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Maybe that's unpatriotic, but I'd rather be spied upon than blown up. And until the government starts to patrol the streets and beat random people with clubs, I'll give the government the benefit of the doubt. Conspiracy? yeah I bet there's pieces of it everywhere... but complete control of the country? police state? I think not. But hey, maybe the "letter to the editor" in the local newspaper was right when it said Bush would be king after the next election. Who knows!
And you're right when you say that crazy people will say the truth once in a while. With as much stuff as they do say, they're bound to be right occasionally. But the problem is determining which of their babblings is actually true. They can make all of their stuff sound good; hah if you're gullible enough you will blindly follow AJ's 'proof' and believe all sorts of crazy stuff. Every so often Georgey Bush goes down to Texas for a good ol' human sacrifice!!! (my good buddy Alex Jones was even able to tape one of the secret Moravian Cult meetings!!!! you'd better watch that movie!! I'm not sure if Bush was in it, but knowing AJ, Bush probably was!! I bet he was the one with the knife too, smiling like a monkey as blood flew through the air!)
Alex Jones, and the people like him, are very very good at twisting facts, or just completely making them up. They also have a knack for finding people who hate the government, and thus they can use alot of quotes to back their reasoning up. When people lie all day on their radio shows about stuff like Mexicans towns in Texas, and concentration camps in New York it's very difficult to believe them when they say the government was behind 9-11. It's not the "mystical crap with no proof", it's the fact that they lie all day long. And then I'm supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt when they say the government was behind 9-11.
not sure where you're going with the religion comments... I'm finding you like to throw anti-religion statements in all of your posts. yippee dooda, if it floats your jetsam go ahead. :D
You are the poison that is destrying America. I mean that with all honesty and conviction. It doesnt matter if the government IS kicking in peoples doors (which why should they, when they could just do some [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=illegal+wiretaps&btnG=Google+Search]illegal wiretaps[/url]), the fact that they can is a clear corruption of american constitutional values. Ben Franklin said "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Though considering that you managed to miss the fact that the government IS spying on its citizens for no reason AND in violation of existing law I guess I shouldnt expect too much out of you.
As for the "religion comments," I was making a point. Lets examine this crazy guy you were talking about and religion.
No proof for anything they claim? Check.
Wacky claims? Check.
Followers who will resist all logic in order to maintain belief? Check.
The point I was trying to get at, and I'll make it nice and big here for you since you missed it the first time, was that RELIGION AND LUNATICS ON STREET CORNERS ARE THE SAME THING. The only thing seperating a religion and a cult is the number of followers. 2000 years ago when christians actually WERE being oppressed (**** you, O'reilly), guess what chrisitiany was? It was a freaking sub cult of Judaism.
your bias towards religion is ridiculous, I won't even try to go there. and I don't see how your belief that religion is lunatics is in any way related to the topic we're discussing.
I also don't how you can find a fact that the government is spying on its citizens for no reason. Seems to me that the spying they are doing is to catch terrorists; I think that would be a reason. Yes, I am against spying for no reason at all; and I don't think that the government should be doing illegal activities, like illegal wiretaps. But the problem is, without spying, it's very very hard to catch terrorists. It's not like they dance on the street and shout out their plans.
See, I'm not a guy who thinks the government is inherently bad. I don't go outside expecting to see feds kicking my neighbor's door down. I guess I have some respect for the government because we haven't once been blown out of the skysince 9-11. It seems that the government is doing it's job in protecting us from terrorists. Though apparently they've been able to do that illegally. And yes, that isn't right. I really don't know what to think... should the government be able to break some privacy laws in order to check on people they think might be terrorists? or should the government give them the benefit of the doubt, and hope that the persons in question aren't planning to bomb Sears Tower tomorrow? It's a hard situation, and I won't pretend to know the answer. I truly am undecided, it seems that both sides have their good and bad points.
QUOTE FEST!
Summary of video please, I can't be bothered watching/waiting for the whole thing.
I can't wait till I get home from class and my nap today!
Missiles destroyed the towers. That's all you need to know.
[quote=Chrono]How about you read my post next time :D
(A) I don't discredit the story because it's unofficial. I discredit it because the guys who make those movies are complete lunatics. If you want to believe the kind of people who think the Mexicans control towns in Texas, Bush is in a cult with human sacrificices, and the government controls the nation-wide weather (the list could go on and on), hey, go ahead. But I'd rather not.
(B) and I don't assume the government is completely perfect and that they don't make up their own stuff.
I did read your post, none of that video suggesting anything like that. Again, until you give some evidence against it, I'm going to assume the reason you think it's untrue is because you watched it already having decided so.
And for the record, I 100% believe that whatever hit the pentagon wasn't a commercial jet, and of all the things on the video that section has to be the most airtight.
I'm most convinced by the 'deliberate detonation' hypothesis.
And it makes me tingle that anyone found in posession of that video can be detained as a terrorist in Guantanamo bay.
What the hell is wrong with our country?
[quote=Demonblade]I agree...i dont care what the hell hit the pentagon, but i know for **** sure that it wasnt some commercial airliner. The video suggests that it was a missile shot by a helicopter, but no helicopter that i know of is capable of launching a cruise missile...as the video claims.
The video doesn't claim it was a helicopter, just that someone said they saw one. There were also people that claimed they saw a small jet or a other small aircraft. It was illustrating that no one agreed.
Turns out this wasn't the one I'd previously seen.
Sat down and watched it this afternoon. By god - I believe it all. Thoroughly well-presented, and all the evidence is there.
So what really happened to the passengers of flight 93? It's profound.
I was 13 when 9/11 occurred. I woke up in the morning to prepare for school, coming downstairs to see my parents huddled around the TV watching the news. They told me the World Trade Center had been attacked. I didn't give it much regard; I didn't know then what a big deal it was. When I got to school, everyone was talking about it. A classmate was crying because her relative may have been killed in the event. My first period algebra teacher offered to forego the lesson to talk about it. I heard people liken it to Pearl Harbor. Even for a kid like me who didn't give two shakes about world affairs, I saw just how big a thing it was. But, thanks to my overall indifference for such things, I only knew what people told me: the planes were hijacked, some people were able to call and say their goodbyes, the planes hit, and the buildings collapsed... All at the hand of Osama Bin Laden. What else was there to believe?
Now, almost five years later, I look at a film like this. Some stuff I hadn't even heard of before, like the details of the Pentagon attack, because I didn't even watch the news much... I was too young to really think there was more to know than what I was fed. Even what I did know about the I can look at it again now and say "the building really does fall in a nice pile, doesn't it?" "Hold up, a plane really wouldn't be enough to knock down the entire building." "It pretty much does look exactly like a controlled demolition." I ask myself how I or anyone else could've believed, especially with direct footage of the explosions, that there wasn't something under-the-table going on.
Before, 9/11 represented to me a great disappointment in the virtue of mankind, the horror how a select few with the power to do so could disregard human lives. I guess that much hasn't changed. I am reminded of Arthur Miller's "The Crucible," which illustrates the events of the Salem Witch Trials: using fabricated accusations to scare the population into believing there is a threat from individuals of the community, a few girls are given the power to destroy whom they please for their own gain. The book was written in response to the government's persecution of those believed to be Communists in the 50's, and now they're doing it again: they're able to disregard our rights and exersize their control over us because we allow them to do so in the blind faith we call "patriotism," believing we are being protected, only now we fear "Terrorists" instead of "Commies."
The only power we have now is to help support the truth. As was the case with me, I believe people don't realize this stuff because they don't even think about it. After seeing a plane go into the building, that's what you assume causes the collapse. You don't notice how obviously it was a controlled detonation until someone specifically asks you to consider it while reviewing the footage. I will try to show this video to people, and at least help a little bit.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Linko_16 again.
:(
Thats pretty much the situation I'm in. I was in class and someone came in and told the teacher to turn on the news. No classes got taught that day, and we all just had to sit there and watch the stuff go down.:/
thats gay, my geomtry teacher let us watch the second tower fall...then we started a lesson on paralellorgrams...dumb biotch.
[quote=Demonblade]thats gay, my geomtry teacher let us watch the second tower fall...then we started a lesson on paralellorgrams...dumb biotch.
HOW DID SHE KNOW IT WAS GOING TO FALL?
zOMG SHE MUST BE IN ON IT!!1!
I remember hearing that a kid at my school that laughed (lol cool like sean fury) while watching it got his *** kicked pretty **** badly, but I never really looked into it. Chances are that it happened, though. I jsut wish I could have been there.:/
I saw a 5 minute news clip in school about it, and continued the day normally. Then the news started hypeing it up immensely, and it became the big topic of discussion ever since.
A more detailed summary, please.
Just watch the **** thing. Its only an hour and a half. If you have time to waste on a message board then you have time to watch it.
I was in the 6th grade when it happened. I was at school and my teacher was just sitting there watching this little black and white tv...which we couldn't see the screen. It took till noon before I found out what happened. I saw the news footage the next day, and realized that a plane, unless it was ladened with explosives, would not make that big of an explosion. I think you guys see where I am going with this. And for those who think I am bull****ting you about the fact that I could hae known enough about explosivbes in the 6th grade, I have always been intrested in military weapons and explosives, I was an abnormally smart 6th grader.
I just saw the video, and I must say that it is very difficult to disagree. One of the funniest and ****ing of things is that ring "Osama" was wearing.
It's a cleverly made film. I like the fact that most of the experts on whom Avery relied were fired.
Eh, I've shown it to a load of adults and they've gotten pretty hacked off with me. One even went so far as to look up 9-11 conspiracy-refutation sites; when I can actually be arsed to look at them I'll post them here.
I'd say it was intelligently done.
[quote](3) Government can track you through your cell phones.. beware, if they wanted to check, they could find out what you do 24-7.
Because they actively send and recieve unique signals, to a degree, this should be possible. They could collect data from cell towers and have an idea where you are within a certain proximity, based on where your IMEI pops up. I wouldn't suggest that anyone can listen in on you with them though, or watch you through the camera.
Yeah, it'd have to be a direct tap. I doubt the calls are recorded at all because of the amount of cells around.
Another reason I'm glad I dont have a cell.:cool:
Most modern cellphones have GPS cips in them incase they are stolen and to change the time automatically, so theoretically the goverment can track you thrugh your cell phone.
This stuff seems about on par with my average post...
No, it doesnt. The movie was well thought out and reasonable. You, however, are a total git.
Fast cat.