Coretta Scott King dies




Posted by Iris

[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11110291/"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11110291/[/URL]

Very sad. A great wife, mother, and human rights activist.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

I thought this was about Vox. It's not :(




Posted by Lord of Spam

care=very no




Posted by mis0

End of an era, in a way.




Posted by Ant

If Martin Luther King was alive I'm sure he would be outraged.




Posted by Raptor

I find nothing sad about this at all; she no longer has to suffer from cancer or partial paralysis. I could think of no better way to die than in my sleep.

ttyl lady




Posted by KoH

Sad day for human right activists? Sure. My sympathy for them and her family? Absolutely. Knew who she was before looking at the link? Not a ****in' clue.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

k, I read most of it.

So, what's the problem?




Posted by Iris

...She's dead. Like Raptor said, at least she met a peaceful end, but still. It's sad when some one dies, especially some one as great as her.




Posted by Fate

Iris... You know better.




Posted by Iris

Than to expect VGC to seriously care about an important civil rights activist?

Yeah, I should've.




Posted by gOdOfWaR

spreads a tear.not really,she should of been lined up with martin and shot




Posted by Lord of Spam

in before b&




Posted by The Judge

Also in before b&.

It's sad that she died, but it's good that she went peacfully.




Posted by Lord of Spam

Once again, another case of this:

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/penguinbob/1130558034466.jpg[/IMG]




Posted by MetalVox~55

Thats one less on the planet that we should have had in the first place.[spoiler]racism is funny.[/spoiler]
Hi Kris. :)




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: ...She's dead.


And that's a problem?

I mean, I could understand if she held the white and black race together, but it's not like her death is going to upset the balance or anything. She lived a good life, fought for a cause, and somewhat succeeded. I don't see the problem.


Quoted post: Hi Kris.


lol nig[COLOR="White"]g[/COLOR]ers gotta love 'em.



Posted by Iris

[quote=Vampiro]And that's a problem?

I mean, I could understand if she held the white and black race together, but it's not like her death is going to upset the balance or anything. She lived a good life, fought for a cause, and somewhat succeeded. I don't see the problem.
I'm not saying it's a problem, but you're acting as if no one is affected. She ought to at least be acknowledged for what she did, considering she's not going to be doing much now, and in life, made great achievements.




Posted by Lord of Spam


Quoting Iris: considering she's not going to be doing much now,


does loling at that make me a bad person?



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: but you're acting as if no one is affected.


Obviously people are going to affected. Someone died, people are generally affected when someone dies.

I just asked what the problem was, and you said "she's dead". I don't see how that's a problem since she died peacefully after a full life of fighting for a good cause. *shrugs*

Plus, I'm not black, nor do I see more than two black people per week. So... it's kind of hard to really care about her death. I mean, I'm glad she did what she did, but it doesn't affect me directly.

Not to sound insenstive or anything...



Posted by Iris

[quote=Vampiro]Obviously people are going to affected. Someone died, people are generally affected when someone dies.

I just asked what the problem was, and you said "she's dead". I don't see how that's a problem since she died peacefully after a full life of fighting for a good cause. *shrugs*

Plus, I'm not black, nor do I see more than two black people per week. So... it's kind of hard to really care about her death. I mean, I'm glad she did what she did, but it doesn't affect me directly.

Not to sound insenstive or anything...
I didn't mean it as if her death was a problem that could be solved. I meant that the problem was that no one was paying tribute rather than people just saying "so what?" because they aren't directly affected.
Mitch Hedberg died not long ago. We all paid him tribute, eventhough none of us knew his personally, or were really affected by his comedy. We should show concern for some one important who died, rather than shrugging it off and considering it some one else's problem.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Mitch Hedberg died not long ago. We all paid him tribute, eventhough none of us knew his personally, or were really affected by his comedy


Whoa, whoa, whoa. You can't compare a comedic genius to some old lady.

Quoted post:
We should show concern for some one important who died, rather than shrugging it off and considering it some one else's problem.


I see what you're saying, but the problem is, I don't think many people even knew she was still alive. I know I didn't.



Posted by Iris

If that's the case, you should've reconsidered replying to this thread in the first place.




Posted by Xenos

Bunch of jerks. The civil rights era were, yes, primarily blacks, however, there was more too it--Asians being an example, and for that, I thank her and other civil rights folks. Reading this thread, I wonder if some of the comments here is nothing more than a crude joke.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: If that's the case, you should've reconsidered replying to this thread in the first place.



More like regret, amirite?

Either way, why would I want to reconsider it? I didn't know she existed, I didn't know she died, but now I do.


Quoted post: Reading this thread, I wonder if some of the comments here is nothing more than a crude joke.


I know mine were. Mostly anwyays.



Posted by Xenos

Ah, alright then. I get quite defensive at **** like this--I dunno, I think about how I'd hate having someone **** on my grave.




Posted by MetalVox~55

CJ i've got your back like the tag team champions of the world that we are.




Posted by KoH

Guys, after a period of 1 minute of assessing the situation, I have come to this realization:

either offer sympathy and discuss her life as it was or stfu

I dunno, this just seems like the logical thing to say considering that she was a historical figure and for some reason, no one decided to spur a debate when eddy whats-his-face died but instead just gave sympathy. I honestly don't understand human emotions. You'd rather give sympathy to some fugly wrestler than a brave old lady. :(




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

didn't you give me crap for being sad that the pope was about to die




Posted by KoH

... Yes... Ssshh. I'm trying to be noble, here.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: CJ i've got your back like the tag team champions of the world that we are.


thanks babe, you know I'll always appreciate your support.


Quoted post: either offer sympathy and discuss her life as it was or stfu


Ah c'mon. I don't see what the big deal is. If people disagree with something, so be it. Let them. It's no skin off of your back, right? There's no chance it's going to change your opinion all of a sudden, right? So why does it matter. You know you care, you know you're doing what you think is right, so who cares what other people say?



Posted by KoH

[quote=Vampiro]Ah c'mon. I don't see what the big deal is. If people disagree with something, so be it. Let them. It's no skin off of your back, right? There's no chance it's going to change your opinion all of a sudden, right? So why does it matter. You know you care, you know you're doing what you think is right, so who cares what other people say?

Well, for one, this is off-topic, not the war board. Am I right or is this one of those things where I'm going insane again? I just think, and yes, I'm aware that this is TOTALLY not my nature, that people need to be more focused at times. At the very least when it comes to death or someone dying. Irrelevant as it may be to us nerds, as little as it affects you, death deserves respect to some degree. That's my say anyway.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Well, for one, this is off-topic, not the war board.


Since when are disagreements kept just to the War board?

Also, I DO understand what you're saying. But I think you missed my point.


Quoted post: death deserves respect to some degree.


And I gave my respect. It just wasn't that much.



Posted by Raptor


Quoting KoH: Guys, after a period of 1 minute of assessing the situation, I have come to this realization:

either offer sympathy and discuss her life as it was or stfu

I dunno, this just seems like the logical thing to say considering that she was a historical figure and for some reason, no one decided to spur a debate when eddy whats-his-face died but instead just gave sympathy. I honestly don't understand human emotions. You'd rather give sympathy to some fugly wrestler than a brave old lady. :(


It's more specifically about what type of media and figures in society happen to capture and arouse human emotions. Of course most people would rather mourn the death of some stupid professional wrestler than a real person who made a positive, meaningful impact in society! Those are the kinds of human beings I actually admire; those who dare to stand up, take charge, and succeed in making a positive difference anyway they can. As for a bunch of buff, sweaty brutes in skimpy tights grunting, trash talking, and shoving their snouts in each other's armpits, I really don't have much respect for them at all.

So I think this thread was actually very called for. I'm not going to gush over how much she meant to me and how sad I am that she's gone, because she never affected me that much personally, but I feel she deserves respect for who she was, not necessarily because she died.



Posted by Fate

Hey, I can appreciate both. Ever think that your typecasting of your implied morons just doesn't apply sometimes?




Posted by KoH

[quote=Raptor]It's more specifically about what type of media and figures in society happen to capture and arouse human emotions. Of course most people would rather mourn the death of some stupid professional wrestler than a real person who made a positive, meaningful impact in society! Those are the kinds of human beings I actually admire; those who dare to stand up, take charge, and succeed in making a positive difference anyway they can. As for a bunch of buff, sweaty brutes in skimpy tights grunting, trash talking, and shoving their snouts in each other's armpits, I really don't have much respect for them at all.

So I think this thread was actually very called for. I'm not going to gush over how much she meant to me and how sad I am that she's gone, because she never affected me that much personally, but I feel she deserves respect for who she was, not necessarily because she died.

That's my point exactly. While, yes, she never affected the majority of us in any direct way, nor did half of us even know who she was, I think that spurring a debate over civil rights in the same thread that is meant to mourn or reflect the good she did is uncalled for and immature, at best. It could be just me who thinks that death deserves respect, no matter who dies, but it's a concept I've grown to live with. And again, why would no one create a debate about the wrestler bur start one here? This lady did actual good for humanity, no matter the effect on your life, whereas the wrestler did what? Have soft core sex with other men in a ring? Psh, I'm just saying, give respect to the lady and set aside debates for another day.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: I think that spurring a debate over civil rights


When did this take place?



Posted by KoH

[quote=Xenos]Bunch of jerks. The civil rights era were, yes, primarily blacks, however, there was more too it--Asians being an example, and for that, I thank her and other civil rights folks. Reading this thread, I wonder if some of the comments here is nothing more than a crude joke. You mean... that?




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Bj Blaskowitz]didn't you give me crap for being sad that the pope was about to die

The hell? The Pope doesn't die, he reincarnates into a new body. Like Dr Who!




Posted by The Judge

You're thinking of the Dahli Llama (sp)




Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

you people **** me off with your hypcocrisy




Posted by Speedfreak

Hey, come on now. I don't actually know who Coretta Scott actually is.




Posted by KoH

[quote=Bj Blaskowitz]you people **** me off with your hypcocrisy
I'll confess to this. :( At least in the past.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Yeah, I'd definitely confess to that too. Then again, who cares?




Posted by Iris

I was sad when the pope died. I just didn't like the new one.




Posted by s0ul

I don't see how people can't understand why you would mourn more over Eddie or Mitch than you would Coretta Scott King. Different people, different interests, yeah?




Posted by KoH

[quote=Iris]I was sad when the pope died. I just didn't like the new one.

I agree with that statement.

[quote=s0ul]I don't see how people can't understand why you would mourn more over Eddie or Mitch than you would Coretta Scott King. Different people, different interests, yeah?

Well, Eddie was a wrestler... I didn't see how he affected anyone's life in a dramatic way to actually change the lives of a large group of people. The world would continue spinning without him just as it is now with very little changes. Mitch, well, I did mourn for that guy, he was one funny dude. I'm not saying that I didn't pay my respects for either of these guys, I'm just saying that in comparison, Coretta Scott King has done far much more than either of the guys you mentioned and hence, she deserves that much more respect for her death.




Posted by Lord of Spam

It think the issue is that they think its silly to have your priorities set so that an entertainer is less important that a civil rights activist.

I see where they come from, but being a blond hair, blue eyed white male, i havent really felt racism, so I dont know what its like. And since I'm not retarded, I never got into wrestling, so I didnt really care about [url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/penguinbob/1132012773668.jpg]Eddie getting Guerrerowned.[/url]




Posted by Fate

For the last mother****ing time, you don't have to be retarded to like wrestling. It's the same as watching acrobats who happen to know how to act impromptu. Whe the hell is wrong with you guys in not being able to believe that?

Also, it's not so farfetched to feel bad for someone that we've seen for so long on television and then suddenly not be there anymore. Other people who watched his life story and watched interviews with fellow wrestlers would feel even more sad because of the "personal" effect it has. Are you guys stupid? People will mourn Eddie's death if they cared, and others will mourn King's death. My brother is black and I don't give a **** who from the civil rights era has died, but I'm not going to say that a death from an activist isn't important. There are no priorities to death. It's about what you care about most.

As if it's so ****ing hard to believe that someone is worth crying for. You guys are stupid.




Posted by Speedfreak

[quote=Fate][COLOR=skyblue]For the last mother****ing time, you don't have to be retarded to like wrestling. It's the same as watching acrobats who happen to know how to act impromptu. Whe the hell is wrong with you guys in not being able to believe that?[/COLOR]

Fat, leotard wearing acrobats with ridiculous haircuts, silly voices and a homosexual streak in their fighting style, sure. I think people are more pissed off with it being considered a sport more than anything.




Posted by s0ul


Quoting KoH:
Well, Eddie was a wrestler... I didn't see how he affected anyone's life in a dramatic way to actually change the lives of a large group of people. The world would continue spinning without him just as it is now with very little changes. Mitch, well, I did mourn for that guy, he was one funny dude. I'm not saying that I didn't pay my respects for either of these guys, I'm just saying that in comparison, Coretta Scott King has done far much more than either of the guys you mentioned and hence, she deserves that much more respect for her death.


Well, I don't like wrestling at all, so I'll put this on my perspective from Mitch. I am a huge fan of comedy, I've been watching stand-up since before I got any of the jokes, and Mitch was my favorite comedian a long time before he died. When you see him perform, you watch his special and hear his CDs, he opens himself up, he makes you laugh and you see the sort of person he is.

King on the other hand, you know her cause. That's it. Civil rights activist. Was her cause more note-worthy? If you dig liberty, probably yes. But you still don't know her at all, she never did anything that made me think I could relate, she never spoke to me, never had any influence on me at all. It's ridiculous to expect someone to care more about someone they've never heard of than someone they watched and laughed with for years.

P.S. this could apply to Eddie if you're more a fan of dry-humping than comedy



Posted by Ant

I only heard about her until she died. Thus, it was like if anyone else died in the news.




Posted by Klarth

[quote=Ant]I only heard about her until she died.
So now you don't know who she is?




Posted by Iris

I don't know why it's hard to get your priorities straight and realize the tribute to some one who helped shape the world is more important than some one who helped shape Mondays and Thursdays at 9 PM. Yeah, it's perfectly fine to mourn over Eddie, but he wasn't some humanitarian, he was a freaking wrestler. I acknowledge how many years people have watched him on television. But comparing that to how many years Coretta Scott has been fighting against segregation and giving Eddie more attention is total bullsh[COLOR=#ff9999]it.[/COLOR]
No, I'm not being ignorant to your guys feelings. Eddie was cool, as well as Mitch. However, I never knew Coretta personally, but I know [COLOR=#ff9999]dam[/COLOR]n well she did more than either of them.




Posted by Fate

Uhhhh, I'm on your side, Iris. My point was that it didn't matter what she did if people don't care about it enough to even give her a thread of proper respect.




Posted by Ant


Quoting Klarth: So now you don't know who she is?


hadn't heard about her*

iris is a bix



Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Thursdays at 9 PM.


Fridays at eight :cookie:


Quoted post: However, I never knew Coretta personally, but I know **** well she did more than either of them.


So? Important people die all of the time. That's not a reason to start caring about them, though.



Posted by Bj Blaskowitz

she didn't help shape the world. Her HUSBAND DID. She just hated the war in Iraq and apartheid. Give credit where it's due. Nobody knows about Medgar Evers or W.E.B. DuBois, Robert Moses, Roy Wilkins, Thurgood Marshall, or any of the people martyred during their civil rights protests. But sure, everybody knows who Rosa Parks and Coretta Scott King is and exactly what they did. Weird how heroes are made in this country.




Posted by Ant

Women don't get much credit. So they have to pick some.




Posted by KoH

[quote=Fate][COLOR=skyblue]For the last mother****ing time, you don't have to be retarded to like wrestling. It's the same as watching acrobats who happen to know how to act impromptu. Whe the hell is wrong with you guys in not being able to believe that?[/COLOR]

Okay, one, true, you don't have to be retarded, but it helps a great deal in order to enjoy the gay orgy that occurs. Two, yes, "whe," indeed. Since you are female, perhaps you'll never understand where us guys are coming from. Men and women are different and hence, have different perspectives. But to the majority of men, at least on this board, wrestling's for retards. But alas, we are nerds.
[COLOR=skyblue]
[quote]Also, it's not so farfetched to feel bad for someone that we've seen for so long on television and then suddenly not be there anymore. Other people who watched his life story and watched interviews with fellow wrestlers would feel even more sad because of the "personal" effect it has. Are you guys stupid? People will mourn Eddie's death if they cared, and others will mourn King's death. My brother is black and I don't give a **** who from the civil rights era has died, but I'm not going to say that a death from an activist isn't important. There are no priorities to death. It's about what you care about most.[/COLOR]

There are natural priorities to death, of course there are. Don't be thick. If when the last pope died there were also a death of a bum, which, do you honestly think, people would place a natural priority for? The pope? Someone who has done good for the world, whether the effects hit you or not, or some bum. Some guy that you may have seen once in a while on the street corner on your way to work, but ultimately someone who never affected your life, and who you will merely never see again. My point is: These people who did general good for the world through their actions deserve more recognition and respect than some guy who more than half the world doesn't care about.
[COLOR=skyblue]
[/COLOR][COLOR=skyblue][quote][/COLOR][COLOR=skyblue] As if it's so ****ing hard to believe that someone is worth crying for. You guys are stupid.[/COLOR]

? I'm not gonna cry over anyone's death. Death is a natural thing, I see no reason for sorrow. If there is a God, if there is a heaven, then I believe they've gone to a better place. Which is more than I could say for a certain wrestler whom I've no idea what his personal convictions are, nor do I care in the least bit.

[quote=s0ul]Well, I don't like wrestling at all, so I'll put this on my perspective from Mitch. I am a huge fan of comedy, I've been watching stand-up since before I got any of the jokes, and Mitch was my favorite comedian a long time before he died. When you see him perform, you watch his special and hear his CDs, he opens himself up, he makes you laugh and you see the sort of person he is.

King on the other hand, you know her cause. That's it. Civil rights activist. Was her cause more note-worthy? If you dig liberty, probably yes. But you still don't know her at all, she never did anything that made me think I could relate, she never spoke to me, never had any influence on me at all. It's ridiculous to expect someone to care more about someone they've never heard of than someone they watched and laughed with for years.

I see your point. I understand it. Now try to comprehend mine:

I totally get where you're coming from. Someone you've watched for years, been with, gotten to "know" (in one sense or another) would place a far higher priority to you than someone you barely knew. But we're talking about the greater good, man. Not about what made you laugh, nor what gave you a hard-on after seeing him have a live orgy in a ring. These things, while possibly being important to you, are not of real importance. I'm NOT saying that people shouldn't mourn their deaths. I believe every death, no matter the person, deserves some recognition and respect. I am saying though that people need to learn who naturally deserves more respect than others. Think about it, which makes more sense?

[quote]P.S. this could apply to Eddie if you're more a fan of dry-humping than comedy
Thaaank you. See? Even Soul agrees. Wrestling is gay.

[quote=Bj Blaskowitz]she didn't help shape the world. Her HUSBAND DID. She just hated the war in Iraq and apartheid. Give credit where it's due. Nobody knows about Medgar Evers or W.E.B. DuBois, Robert Moses, Roy Wilkins, Thurgood Marshall, or any of the people martyred during their civil rights protests. But sure, everybody knows who Rosa Parks and Coretta Scott King is and exactly what they did. Weird how heroes are made in this country.

Mmyes.

[LIST]
[*]spoke/preached at St. Paul's Cathedral in England
[*]created, planned, and sought funding for the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change in Atlanta
[*]established in 1969 the annual Coretta Scott King Award to honor African American authors of outstanding educational writings
[*]established in 1979 an additional Award to honor African American illustrators
[*]assured recognition for the civil rights movement by seeing her late husband




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post:
There are natural priorities to death, of course there are. Don't be thick. If when the last pope died there were also a death of a bum, which, do you honestly think, people would place a natural priority for?


Whoever was closer to them? Whoever played a bigger part in their life, maybe?

The priorities are largely subjective.



Posted by sabre

Wow KoH... for such a long post, you sure did miss the point a lot. :/




Posted by KoH

[quote=Vampiro]Whoever was closer to them? Whoever played a bigger part in their life, maybe?

The priorities are largely subjective.
Again, I said that's not the point. My point is what that person did for the general population. It can't always be about you, nor what affected your life and what didn't. It's about how much respect that person deserved from his/her life accomplishments.

[quote=Sabredog]Wow KoH... for such a long post, you sure did miss the point a lot. :/

Rather, everyone missed mine.




Posted by Fei-on Castor

At least she was black.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: Again, I said that's not the point. My point is what that person did for the general population. It can't always be about you, nor what affected your life and what didn't. It's about how much respect that person deserved from his/her life accomplishments.


So, you're saying I should care more about King than my mom because King did more for the general public, and thus, deserves respect?

I completely disagree. I understand that certain people will get more recognition in death because of what they did in their life, but that doesn't mean they automatically deserve my respect.

When it comes down to it, death IS about you. It's about you and the person who died and how their death affected you. It's not about who deserves more respect and who is more important to society. It's simply about how you deal with the death of someone who was important to you.



Posted by Fei-on Castor

At least she was black, you guys.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire

Shut up, seriously.




Posted by KoH

[quote=Vampiro]So, you're saying I should care more about King than my mom because King did more for the general public, and thus, deserves respect?

I completely disagree. I understand that certain people will get more recognition in death because of what they did in their life, but that doesn't mean they automatically deserve my respect.

When it comes down to it, death IS about you. It's about you and the person who died and how their death affected you. It's not about who deserves more respect and who is more important to society. It's simply about how you deal with the death of someone who was important to you.

No. I didn't say that at all. Respect and caring are two completely different things, Vamp. I'd care far more if someone I personally knew died than if King died. I, myself, hadn't even known of the major accomplishments that Coretta Scott King did in her life. Honestly, I don't really care much about them either. The fact is, she did good for the world. When someone who tried doing good dies, it's just common courtesy to give him or her more respect, not "love," than a wrestler or some hobo off the street.

In case there's anyone else who confuses the words "respect" and "care" I've included the definitions of both words below: Or rather, the links to the definitions. :)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=respect
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=care




Posted by The Judge

Wow, I haven't checked this thread since I posted in it, and I doubt the situation has gotten any more complex than some people being sad that she died and others not being sad.

Amazing, are you?




Posted by Iris

[quote=Vampiro]So, you're saying I should care more about King than my mom because King did more for the general public, and thus, deserves respect?
Yeah, I'd mourn for your loss, but I never knew your mom, nor did I know Coretta Scott. However, I know she did more than your mom worth recognition, so I should give her more respect, coming from a neutral standpoint. Like KoH said, caring for some one is much different than respecting some one for what they've done in their life. It really is about priority.
[quote]I understand that certain people will get more recognition in death because of what they did in their life, but that doesn't mean they automatically deserve my respect.
Yeah, actually, it usually pretty much does.




Posted by mis0

I think it's sorta sad how her message only makes national headlines in her passing. I do salute President Carter for bringing up the issues of inequality at hand. The news shouldn't neglect the racial inequality in our country and if this is what it takes for it to get in the news, it's sad.

RIP, Coretta.




Posted by Vampiro V. Empire


Quoted post: No. I didn't say that at all. Respect and caring are two completely different things, Vamp.

In case there's anyone else who confuses the words "respect" and "care" I've included the definitions of both words below: Or rather, the links to the definitions.


Care and respect go hand-in-hand. I'm fairly certain that I first have to care about a person to actually respect them...

oh, and thanks for the links, 'cause, I had no idea what those two words actually meant!


Quoted post: It really is about priority.


Disagree. And really, nothing anyone has said has made me want to rethink that.


Quoted post: Yeah, actually, it usually pretty much does.


Uh, no it doesn't. Wow, someone important died, better start respecting them, even though I have no idea who they are!



Posted by Ant


Quoting The Judge: Wow, I haven't checked this thread since I posted in it, and I doubt the situation has gotten any more complex than some people being sad that she died and others not being sad.

Amazing, are you?


Moreso about if you should be sad because they were important people, and you know that much, but have no idea with what they did.

In any case, I agree with Vamp.



Posted by Fate

Ditto. My opinion won't change no matter what the other side presents.




Posted by KoH

Okay guys, know what? This entire argument is therefore useless. Let's face it, any argument that deals with opinion is usually pointless. Let's get over it and pay our respects to the lady, if they had not already been paid.